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Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

nytimes.com

41–50 of 62 posts

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#41
post #2

Rent control is a bandaid that tries to fix fundamental systemic flaws and lack of planning by society. Problems: They do mention Oregon's land use laws. I didn't see it while skimming but (for west coast states) the land that is actually "state" instead of federal is also an issue (#1). However the biggest issue is that the Supply vs Demand curves for housing are simply insane. Demand is mostly dictated by jobs, and…

Another far less wonky solution to consider: public housing.

Public housing is hardly a libertarian's dream, but even from a laissez-faire viewpoint this makes vastly more sense than rent control.

If you want something, and the market isn't providing it, you subsidize the supply or you buy it directly. That might distort prices relative to an independent market, but if your public policy is stable they'll still reflect relative demand and supply. Subsidizing purchases or constraining prices doesn't just alter the market, it degrades the signal - and usually doesn't fulfill the goal except in the very short term.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#42
post #27

There is more consensus on Rent Control being harmful than there is on global warming. Its absolutely insane that it would be enacted. The solutions to expensive housing is complicated, obviously. Its about zoning, cancelling out NIMBYism, incentivizing affordable housing and basically matching supply with demand. Rent control simply doesn't work. For any person it helps, it will disadvantage 10x more in the process.…

What do you mean by vacancy controls leading to reduced rental stock and lowering property values?

If high rent is the issue, vacant units should be pushed to the market instead of artificially limiting supply. Cities and residents would mutually benefit from a vacancy tax like Vancouver or similar, where international speculators are not using the units for anything useful to anyone in the city.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#43
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay $500 Canadian + electricity/heating ($80) / month for an apartment (half of top floor in duplex) in a good part of town, 20 minute walk from the very best part. That's 439.43USD including all utilities for a one bedroom, or '3.5' as it is called here (kitchen, living room, bedroom, bathroom). & I know many dozens of people in the same scenario, or who pay less. There is definitely more expensive stuff out there…

Do you have a link to an example? >In fact I shit you not, my neighbour who has kept their place since the early 90s, pays 246.22 USD + electric for the same apartment as me. . . Undoubtedly those that have rent controlled apartments do well. But that does not mean one can go and get an apartment and pay a rate similar to the one that they have.

>Do you have a link to an example?

Like I said, on Craigslist/Kijiji/etc it is difficult to find such a price, or when it goes online, it disappears very quickly. A price like this can be found by walking around and finding "à louer" signs and calling the number.

But here is one for $650CAD (492.47USD): https://www.kijiji.ca/v-appartement-condo/ville-de-montreal/...

>But that does not mean one can go and get an apartment and pay a rate similar to the one that they have.

But when she dies (probably not far away), the place legally must be rented at the same price (+ inflation of one year), assuming no major renovations are undertaken. And if it get's renovated, the price can only rise to a certain point unless the whole building get's demoed. So someone will get it at about that price, eventually, unless the landlord illegally raises the price (which happens).

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#44
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to predict that governments go this direction because of all the problems the housing market economy has caused.

Such as?

There's a whole article which we are commenting about a rent-control policy being passed. Why don't you consider the reasons stated for its passage in the article, instead of asking people here to restate them for you? Sealioning isn't a good way to have friendly discussions.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#45
post #4

Why do governments go this direction when it causes so many problems? In a market economy, which includes both housing construction and home rentals, price is the signal by which demand is measured. Rent control either eliminates or severely distorts that signal. I’m going to predict that:1) fewer new homes will be constructed and 2) rents will sky rocket where it’s possible (tenant turnover).

Market economies work great in textbooks under idealized conditions of perfect competition, where all participants in the market are fully informed and have the option to enter or exit the market freely. In reality demand for housing is highly inelastic, significant informational asymmetries exist, the market is fundamentally constrained by the supply of land and the varying demands resulting from demographic change,…

> the market is fundamentally constrained by the supply of land

And constrained by how the government allows that land to be used.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#46
post #6

Bizarre to not mention the long-standing, broad consensus among economists that rent controls do more harm than good. Courtesy Wikipedia, here’s Paul Krugman in 2000: https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent... Surely if economists were so widely in support of such policies, the Times would have highlighted that fact.

Economists also universally agree that free trade creates the most wealth. But this assumes that distribution and dislocation effects are ameliorated with wealth transfers on the side.

Nobody disagrees that rent control increases the average rent. The question is whether it's a worthwhile trade-off. I tend to see it as a tax on the young for the benefit of families and the elderly. In a city like San Francisco a worthwhile trade-off.

In reality, turnover tends to be relatively high in cities, and especially in San Francisco. For large apartment buildings the marginal increase in rents induced by rent control are very small. For smaller apartment buildings the risk to the landlord is greater (potentially less turnover, fewer opportunities to reset baseline to market prices). This is why I think that rent control should go hand-in-hand with density.

Rent control also increases the appeal of renting relative to purchasing as it provides the same ongoing expenditure stability. If we get rid of rent control we should simultaneously remove all incentives for home ownership. But we all know that the latter is politically infeasible. Why should we expect rent control to be any less politically infeasible? Because we tend to perceive the proponents and beneficiaries of rent control as starry-eyed liberals?

In a city like San Francisco the biggest culprit of high rents, aside from sheer demand, is zoning and the arduous approval process. All this finger wagging over rent control is counterproductive and tone deaf. If we remove rent control the biggest problems will remain. If we address the biggest problems then the "problem" of rent control will largely recede.

The same logic applies to Georgist Land Value Taxes. Conceptually they're the best way to maximize efficient use of land. But we know that they're politically infeasible. No Georgist LVT system has ever survived without exceptions and loopholes making the system honored only in the breach. We cannot underestimate the social value of price stability for something as important as housing. If you ignore the fundamental need, bad things will happen like Proposition 13.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#48
post #6

Bizarre to not mention the long-standing, broad consensus among economists that rent controls do more harm than good. Courtesy Wikipedia, here’s Paul Krugman in 2000: https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent... Surely if economists were so widely in support of such policies, the Times would have highlighted that fact.

While it’s true that rent control is Econ 101, what’s being proposed now a days is not a strict price cap.

It allows for increases above and beyond inflation, and generally above the kind of returns one could get on the stock market (in Oregon’s case it’s 7% plus CPI).

There’s also a carve out for new construction. That incentivizes capital to go to increasing supply, as opposed to the current situation where flippers add a new coat of paint, buy some stainless steel appliances and then jack up the rent.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#49
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the market seems not to have magically provided a supply of housing that is adequate for the market to reach an affordable equilibrium. I agree the article should have mentioned it and am also skeptical about the efficacy of rent control, but other approaches don't seem to be working out as hoped.

Is there local regulation or NIMBY-ism that prevents the market from providing new housing?

I suggest you form your own assessment and see if other people find it plausible and actionable.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#50
post #27

There is more consensus on Rent Control being harmful than there is on global warming. Its absolutely insane that it would be enacted. The solutions to expensive housing is complicated, obviously. Its about zoning, cancelling out NIMBYism, incentivizing affordable housing and basically matching supply with demand. Rent control simply doesn't work. For any person it helps, it will disadvantage 10x more in the process.…

What do you mean by vacancy controls leading to reduced rental stock and lowering property values? If high rent is the issue, vacant units should be pushed to the market instead of artificially limiting supply. Cities and residents would mutually benefit from a vacancy tax like Vancouver or similar, where international speculators are not using the units for anything useful to anyone in the city.

I can easily explain this.

Two buildings are for sale. They are identical in rental income, quality, etc.. and cost the same.

The only difference between the two buildings is that one has enormous restrictions on how you own and operate the building. You as a landlord will have a cap on your potential upside in rent, but NO cap in the downside.

Which building will you buy, all other facts equal? Unless you are insane, it will be the non rent-controlled building. As such, the price of the rent-controlled building will have to be lowered to compete for a sale. Hence lower prices.

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