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Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

citylab.com

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Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#161

Post by berlinerluft »

thecleaner wrote: post #148
berlinerluft wrote: post #130

It's horrible. They do everything to prevent more housing from being built. The fact is, the city is just popular, so people are moving in, which drives the prices up. The government of Berlin consists of incompetent socialists. Just look at the disaster of the new airport for a popular example. Please don't take any cues from them. They only persist because Berlin get's a lot of subsidies from the rest of the countr…

The thing is what would happen if they respond yoy he growing demand and build more housing ? If the economy of the city slows down even a little bit it will be hit hard with bad debt. Companies are currently mushrooming in Berlin. Keeping rents affordable could in fact help the people and help create more companies there.

I don't think the city should do the building, so I don't understand what you mean by bad debt?

Affordable rents don't help much if you can't find a place to rent.

It is not just a problem for people who want to move to the city, but also for people whose situation has changed, and who now can't move. (Like having kids, switching jobs, that sort of thing).

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#162

Post by jupp0r »

manicdee wrote: post #149

All you people claiming that the only way to reduce housing costs is to build more housing are missing the other only way to reduce housing costs. Remember, there is not only supply but also demand. We need to reduce population growth to below zero. A sustainable world population is probably close to 0.9B, far less than the current level of about 9B, and significantly less than projected “stable” population of around…

Germany's population growth is already negative, people still want to live in cities, hence they grow while rural areas decline.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#163

Post by ummonk »

dmix wrote: post #74
adrianN wrote: post #9

The truth is that rents in Berlin are exceptionally cheap compared to other major cities. Try finding a flat in London or Paris for The only way to keep rents this low in the face of rising demand is public housing that is rented out below market rates to low income tenants, or via a lottery.

> The only way to keep rents this low in the face of rising demand is public housing that is rented out below market rates to low income tenants, or via a lottery. Or you know, build more housing.

At some point you’ll run into construction cost limits for multistory dwellings. I don’t know how close Berlin is to that point but given how much cheaper their rent is than other major cities they’re probably doing a better job than most of building housing.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#164

Post by snarf21 »

snarf21 wrote: post #79
tjansen wrote: post #50

I live in a different but still expensive Germany city and rent a apartment from a city-owned public housing company. The rent of the landlord's apartments is 20-30% lower than what you would pay in the free market, and in my neighbourhood I can get a pretty good idea of what people do to get one of those highly desired apartments. It's just crazy. I have heard everything short of bribing the person responsible for s…

Thanks for sharing, I found that very interesting.

Wow, weird. I wasn't being sarcastic. It was interesting to learn about it from someone who lives there. I guess that deserves a downvote.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#165

Post by dmix »

ummonk wrote: post #163
dmix wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to keep rents this low in the face of rising demand is public housing that is rented out below market rates to low income tenants, or via a lottery. Or you know, build more housing.

At some point you’ll run into construction cost limits for multistory dwellings. I don’t know how close Berlin is to that point but given how much cheaper their rent is than other major cities they’re probably doing a better job than most of building housing.

There's a good reason most of the most-expensive places are on tight costal areas like SF and Manhattan, where outward expansion is possible without making any positive internal changes. Just constantly pushing out from the middle via gentrification instead of any realistic market development to match demand.

Not to mention NIMBY-heavy political systems which are common in urban areas... they are always extremely hostile to new development. Which of course benefits current residents in the short term but is a disaster for everyone in the long run.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#166

Post by stale2002 »

ummonk wrote: post #163
dmix wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to keep rents this low in the face of rising demand is public housing that is rented out below market rates to low income tenants, or via a lottery. Or you know, build more housing.

At some point you’ll run into construction cost limits for multistory dwellings. I don’t know how close Berlin is to that point but given how much cheaper their rent is than other major cities they’re probably doing a better job than most of building housing.

Construction cost limits are almost always not caused because of the cost of building the actual building.

The costs instead come from the extra rules and regulations placed on builders, by people who really do not want more houses to be built.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#167

Post by manfredo »

ummonk wrote: post #163
dmix wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to keep rents this low in the face of rising demand is public housing that is rented out below market rates to low income tenants, or via a lottery. Or you know, build more housing.

At some point you’ll run into construction cost limits for multistory dwellings. I don’t know how close Berlin is to that point but given how much cheaper their rent is than other major cities they’re probably doing a better job than most of building housing.

Berlin is not close to this tradeoff point. Tokyo's special wards have a population over twice as large as Berlin in an area about 2/3rds as large as Berlin.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#168

Post by stale2002 »

choeger wrote: post #109
CalRobert wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. I think you forgot "build taller"? " it is ironic how the modern urban population that is so quick to assign blame for climate change (to car owners, carnivores), social injustice (to white men, preferably older), or simply a lack of mobile network coverage fails to understand their own contribution to the problems of a modern city." What are you talking about? Cars ARE half the problems of a modern city. Car owne…

Good plan. More people per square meter. That means you have shorter ways and switch your congestion from the road or the subway to the elevator in your apartment complex. Might even be better for climate but does not sound like a better way of live. If you want to remove car ownership you should try to provide an alternative that is actually better. If you want to avoid congestion, don't create a massive black hole…

"Nobody goes there anymore! It's too crowded", is basically what you sound like.

There are many many people in the world who love cities. All the things that you hate about cities, they love.

Cities make up like 1% of the world wide land use. How about we leave this 1% of land to the people who love cities, and let the rest of the people who don't, to have the other 99%?

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#169

Post by manfredo »

ip26 wrote: post #146
galfarragem wrote: post #103

Everything but freezing rents! Freezing rents literally destroyed Portuguese city fabric and renting market during that time: landlords didn't want to rent more houses neither repair the rented ones. Until recently wasn't uncommon to have old people renting a flat in Lisbon city center for 20€.

I wonder if cities that freeze rents also freeze property taxes?

Some do. California froze property taxes state wide. Many cities then instituted price controls on rents. The result is prices over $10 per square foot in cities like San Francisco.

Rent control means that renters have a big incentive not to move to different apartments. I've even heard stories of people continuing to rent their places after they've moved to different cities so that they can keep the same rents if they ever move back to San Francisco.

Freezes on property taxes means that homeowners try to hold onto their home as long as possible. Because many home owners invest a big portion of their net worth into their house, they are often very adverse to anything that might make home values go down (like building more housing).

Frozen rents + frozen property taxes = extremely high rents due to little supply of housing

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#170

Post by stale2002 »

reallydontask wrote: post #21
Cypher wrote: post #2

Nope, because they'll just setup a load of shell companies.

I'm not saying that this would work but as a thought experiment: Any entity that buys a house zoned as residential has to pay a tax of 100% of the value of the house. Private citizens get an exemption on this tax, if their main residence of which you can only have one, and are 18 or older. CGT is 100% (Deductions for home improvements could be added) The municipality builds affordable housing The tax would probably n…

What you are suggesting would result in all renters being kicked out of the city.

Now, if you want to live in a city, you have to Shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Berlin would only be for the rich, as no renting company would be willing to rent anything to people.

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