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Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

geoff.greer.fm

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Re: Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

#251

Post by chx »

bluedino wrote: post #214
i_am_proteus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point on power dissipation and efficiency-- a T480 might not be substantially faster than a T430, but it's half the size and the battery lasts longer.

They're much faster. 50-60% on the single core stuff and 300% faster on multi-core tests. Not to mention they cruise along on things that use the newer extensions for things like video playback, plus the integrated graphics hardware is much much faster

> They're much faster. 50-60% on the single core stuff and 300% faster on multi-core tests.

[citation needed] 50-60% is absurdly large for single core, the reality is 20%, and 300% is crazy. The T480 uses a 15W quad core on the same 14nm process as the 15W chip in the T470 and because it's slightly more power efficient there's a little gain, about 25-30%. So the difference between the Sandy Bridge T420 to Kaby Lake Refresh T480 is perhaps 50% in multi core.

Here's my favorite Sandy Bridge to Kaby Lake IPC benchmark collection: https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_v...

Re: Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

#252

Post by vokep »

stcredzero wrote: post #147
cr0sh wrote: post #141

I bet if somebody held a gun to my head, and I was at least allowed to dial in via modem to a *nix server with node.js on it - I could probably do my current job, to a certain bare-bones level... ...using my TRS-80 Model 100. Don't get me wrong - it would be a nightmare and no fun, and some things just wouldn't be possible. Though that's definitely not what the author had in mind...

Someone needs to make a modern day equivalent of a Model 100. By that, I mean a highly portable instant-on computer one can do remote terminal work on with seemingly endless battery life. The first programming job I was ever paid for, I did a large part of dialed in through a modem over landlines. Emacs was fantastic for that! (Because it's an OS masquerading as an editor.)

There's got to be a way...Basically just a pure ssh client, thats all, no OS, nothing else, just ssh on whatever most minimal cpu can run it, a keyboard, and a screen.

I guess it isn't considered important because we all have phones most likely charged, but still, it would be nice

Re: Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

#253

Post by LeoPanthera »

shereadsthenews wrote: post #120
danans wrote: post #111

A related question that is also interesting: What is the oldest laptop that can run an up-to-date, internet connected OS (i.e a museum device with the same OS from 1991 doesn't count). It doesn't have to have a fancy desktop, but it does have to support connectivity to the internet, and run all the latest security patches and updates. This is different than the article because optimizing productivity isn't an objecti…

I've got a 486-class machine with 32MB of RAM running an up-to-date unix as my firewall. It really depends on what you want the machine to do for graphics and javascript and whatnot.

Which unix?

Re: Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

#254

Post by smiley1437 »

isostatic wrote: post #247
0815test wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chromebooks suck. Just buy a cheap Windows laptop (and most recent models are going for the Chromebook-like "ultrabook" form factor anyway, even at the low end) and put lightweight Linux on it. You don't really get better specs for the price if you go the Chromebook route, and the whole way they're setup makes them pointless toys. (...No, I'm not going to look for the correct custom firmware for whatever my model of…

I got my mother-in-law a chromebook 2+ years ago. Haven't had a single support call since then, until she came round to stay and wanted to connect to our wifi to watch netflix. This didn't happen with a cheap windows laptop, and likely wouldn't have happened with a roll-your-own linux laptop. A chromebook isn't for me, or you, but it's great for parents/inlaws.

If you need to manage a fleet of machines for tech-challenged staff, Chromebooks using the Chrome management license is quite amazing, if imperfect in some ways.

Set Kiosk-mode for all the machines and if a user has a problem, close the lid and open again, its working again.

Need everyone to have a new tab in the browser? Update in the management and boom, everyone has it.

Of course, the usage case assumes the users will do everything on the cloud using Chrome but that's surprisingly usable these days for non-tech users.

The license is really cheap for non profits (like $30) but is about $150 for regular businesses. It seems like quite an add-on for a $300 Chromebook but it really turns end-user computing fleet management into almost a set-it-and-forget it appliance.

Re: Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

#255

Post by 5166cc9c39fa61 »

avhon1 wrote: post #140
walrus01 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this could be defined into two categories, things with CLI only, and things that can run a reasonably modern GUI. In the first category you'd have trouble finding a modern linux kernel for 32-bit, and distro, that is actually "i386". Since most things long ago dropped support for CPUs that don't have the i586 extensions and things like MMX/SSE. The 32-bit kernels you can get now, as far as I know, require at…

OpenBSD i386 supports "all CPUs compatible with the Intel 80486 or better, with Intel-compatible hardware floating point" https://www.openbsd.org/i386.html NetBSD i386 says "Any i486 or better CPU should work - genuine Intel or a compatible such as Cyrix, AMD, or NexGen." https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/i386/

If you are wondering "why drop support for the 386?," the diff for the removal of 386 support from the Linux kernel is a good read:

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin...

tl;dr atomic instructions XADD and CMPXCHG, and serious bugs in many 386 CPUs. Also BSWAP was added in the 486 and speeds some things up a lot.

Re: Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

#256

Post by javchz »

T430 owner here. Even if it's a Ivy Bridge CPU, the machine works amazingly well. I love it.

In maintenance terms It's almost a desktop. I have replaced the dual core cpu for a quad core, double the RAM, switch the hdd for an SSD, get a better battery, remove the CD drive for a 2nd caddy, added a 5GHz wi-fi card, and still have the possibility to upgrade to a IPS Panel, backlight keyboard and other gimmicks. All with a phillips screwdriver, and official lenovo guide and my thumbs.

And don't make me start talking about linux support, it's basically MacOS plug and play (in Windows you have to install a Lenovo App for the drivers).

With all the upgrades I guess you can make the case, that will all that money, I could buy a better laptop. But I don't know, there is something charming about using the same machine for a long time, and have little improvements over time, with little to no downtime and re-learning workflows.

Makes me sad, that when the time comes to replace the machine, I will not be able to repair it or upgrade as much.

Re: Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

#257

Post by pagnol »

eropple wrote: post #234
mvexel wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I love it. The things I replaced in the 8 years I've had this machine: Stock HDD -> Samsung 840 SSD, Keyboard (failed within 3yr warranty, they shipped me a new one overnight), and the trackpoint cover. Oh, and the OS, from Windows 7 Pro to XUbuntu. I would love a higher density display but that's about it. I am thinking of finally upgrading to an X280 or an X1 but I am afraid the keyboard will be too much of a…

I'm not a fan of the X280 due to some compromises in the form factor; the keyboard feels a little cramped, the screen is pretty low-res. I swapped mine for a T480 and it's been great. If you were to use it primarily docked and with a Thunderbolt dock, though, I could see it being pretty awesome.

Also finally they soldered the memory to the board and didn't leave a free slot, see the spec: https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad%2...

Re: Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

#258

Post by 5166cc9c39fa61 »

larrik wrote: post #7

I'm genuinely surprised it doesn't have a touchpad. I don't think I've ever seen a laptop without one, and I used laptops back in the early/mid 90's.

> I don't think I've ever seen a laptop without one, and I used laptops back in the early/mid 90's.

Were you using PowerBooks? Touchpads were unusual in laptops until about 2000, when things started going downhill. All of the 1990s laptops I used that I can remember (IBM, Toshiba, Compaq) had superior pointing devices: trackpoint or trackballs.

Re: Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

#259

Post by rozenmd »

erik wrote: post #151
teekert wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up until last month I used a MBP from early 2011 daily. I did get (over time) 16 GB ram, an SSD, new battery, GPU replace (by Apple for free due to an issue) and a new charger. Lost month it really died though, no idea what it is (not the ssd, not the ram).

Apple's replacement program for the 2011 MBPs with bad GPUs just swapped in another motherboard with the exact same faulty GPU. All the 15" 2011s eventually die of the same problem. The clock is ticking on mine.

You can permanently disable the GPU on the board, assuming the heat only fried the GPU, your laptop can be usable again.

See https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/166876/macbook-pro... for more info

Re: Oldest Viable Laptop (2017)

#260

Post by 5166cc9c39fa61 »

initself wrote: post #18

Still rocking T60p, with the NMB keyboard. If you haven't touched an NMB Thinkpad keyboard, you haven't actually used a proper Thinkpad. One thing I found absolutely necessary to make my machine usable in 2019 was upgrading all the specs to the max.

> If you haven't touched an NMB Thinkpad keyboard, you haven't actually used a proper Thinkpad.

All these years as a Thinkpad user, and I had no idea of NMB vs ALPS vs Chicony. I thought the variation in the keyboard feel in the machines I own and have used was due to wear alone. Thank you for opening up an entirely new horizon of Thinkpad snobbery.

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