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Is it still ok to have kids in face of climate change?

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Re: Is it still ok to have kids in face of climate change?

#111

Post by ergothus »

userulluipeste wrote: post #101
ergothus wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, this FEELS like a simple choice - but think of the implications of what you're saying. If existing is flat out always better than not - and I want to note this is NOT about suicide (ending existence) but about creating the existence in the first place) - then you're saying the moral thing is to have as many children as possible. For everyone. Taken to a hyperbolic extreme, this is clearly ridiculous. But this is…

I'm not sure you realize that the values that gets in one's mind and govern one's decision towards procreation is one form of current natural selection. It's funny to see some of the world's best and most promising getting bogged down by or getting utterly lost in some "smart people problem" instead of using their capacity to come ahead in the game of life.

> using their capacity to come ahead in the game of life

I, as an independent conscious entity, don't get a benefit from "coming ahead at the game of life".

If someone has a child that they love and cherish, that's great. I'd rather them have a child for that reason over having one because it represents the statistical viability of their collective genetic sequences.

I don't think the examined life is something to mock and put down...nor must it result in self-sterilization.

Re: Is it still ok to have kids in face of climate change?

#112

Post by ergothus »

whatshisface wrote: post #55
ergothus wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the best thing you can do for the world is to have kids ...yet what is the best thing for the kids? That's a harder thing to know - you can't really compare "not existing" with "living in a world that has a ton of issues". You can debate how bad the issues will be, but that really dodges the inability to make that comparison.

Most people would rather exist than not exist, and although it can sometimes seem like it, not everyone in the entire world is severely clinically depressed. Parents make decisions for their children all the time, and existence is one the the safest bets.

Do you have the maximum number of children biologically possible? If not ( and I assume you haven't ), then you've made choices that have prevented others from existing. Assuming you are okay with that ( and I assume you are ) then the decisions involved are not a simple as you portray.

Re: Is it still ok to have kids in face of climate change?

#113

Post by your-nanny »

krupan wrote: post #23

It's pretty hard to predict exactly what's going to happen to society in the face of climate change. We know 100% that society will collapse if we stop having kids.

if we 100% stop having kids, sure. but how about slowly reducing to a total world steady state population of 1 billion. Will that necessarily lead to collapse? maybe with that many people a shift to fossil fuels would t matter so much. maybe we could all have good sized homes and yachts.

Re: Is it still ok to have kids in face of climate change?

#114

Post by your-nanny »

rayiner wrote: post #72

This is /r/im14andthisisdeep material. Life is inherently joyful, especially for children, even under challenging circumstances. The net happiness rating in Bangladesh is +74%-- i.e. 74% more people report themselves happy than report themselves unhappy: https://www.globalresearch.ca/global-polling-which-nations-a... . Decreasing human population decreases the aggregate net happiness experienced by the world. Also, a…

so you are saying that you should maximize number of children you have???

Re: Is it still ok to have kids in face of climate change?

#115

Post by your-nanny »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14

Natural selection means that primarily those who think having kids is ok will propagate their genetic material. So in the long run, the answer is necessarily yes.

what if there is no longer run, because survival in the short term requires otherwise?

island mamnal populations can take wild periodic swings of explosion and collapse. not necessarily the ideal way of going about it.

in any case we shouldn't confusebindividual fitness with group level fitness

Re: Is it still ok to have kids in face of climate change?

#116

Post by your-nanny »

thisisweirdok wrote: post #93
astura wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're unsure? Have children. Someone's bound to survive the apocalypse. Maybe it'll be your genetic material. Huh? What? ... I don't really understand why I would care if my "genetic material" survives a future apocalypse vs some other rando's "genetic material?" or anyone's "genetic material" for that matter. This is an especially bizarre reason for having children.

>This is an especially bizarre reason for having children. This is basically why every species on the planet (with sexual reproduction) has children, whether you're aware of it or not. It's the instinctual drive to propagate. It's why sex feels good (for at least one party involved, for most species).

is vs ought is the distinction that needs to be made. the perogatives of natural selection needn't concord with moral behavior.

Re: Is it still ok to have kids in face of climate change?

#117

Post by thisisweirdok »

your-nanny wrote: post #116
thisisweirdok wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is an especially bizarre reason for having children. This is basically why every species on the planet (with sexual reproduction) has children, whether you're aware of it or not. It's the instinctual drive to propagate. It's why sex feels good (for at least one party involved, for most species).

is vs ought is the distinction that needs to be made. the perogatives of natural selection needn't concord with moral behavior.

Right, but in this case if the deciding factor is climate change and you're ambivalent about the outcome of climate change and humanity... you might as well just roll the dice.

Re: Is it still ok to have kids in face of climate change?

#118

Post by jacques_chirac »

crobertsbmw wrote: post #24

I’ve always believed that if you’re a smart, educated, motivated person (if your reading this than I’m assuming you are one) that probably the best thing you can do for the world is to have kids. Those kids will likely contribute to the world in all sorts of ways that we can’t imagine.

"...if your reading this than..." ouch

Re: Is it still ok to have kids in face of climate change?

#119

Post by mcphage »

elamje wrote: post #16
patatino wrote: post #9

I have a 4 month old daughter and looking a the history I‘m pretty glad she is born today and not 50 or 100 years ago.

Yes, the question is in the context of climate change, not other variables.

> Yes, the question is in the context of climate change, not other variables.

I don't think you can just separate out climate change from everything else that's going on in the world—and even if you could, the result would be meaningless.

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