Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd even say 'brain damage'. Processed food industry seriously limits what you will taste. Most natural fruits/vegetables have so much variety and subtlety in flavour.. they also often come with built-in satiety triggers. You rarely consume as much salad/carrots than pringles/cookies. Modern life is pretty toxic in the end.
I wouldn't go as far as damage, because it is reversible. If you stay away from saturated stimuli you relearn to taste subtler nuances. Capsaicin, and similar substances (TRPV1 agonists) which are found in hot peppers and ginger do kill nociceptive neurons, but that's AFAIK the only case where some food directly damages your nervous system. I think food addiction is mostly reversible (it may be easier to relapse than…
A Cultural History of Fat
51–60 of 75 posts
Re: A Cultural History of Fat
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
We've had a carb rich diet since the neolithic revolution. The obesity epidemics started after WW2. I don't think that they are related.
> We've had a carb rich diet since the neolithic revolution. This isn't true. The modern diet gets 90% (asspulled number, sorry) of its energy from sugar, white flour and potatoes. None of these three really existed in any measurable quantities three hundred years ago. Sugar especially is something only very modern people started to eat in huge quantities.
It would be wiser to contrast 1918 with 2018 (and I agree with you that refined sugar and starch are most likely involved in the current mess).
Re: A Cultural History of Fat
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I eat a snickers bar and afterwards I'm still hungry, I'm not necessarily going to eat another snickers bar. If I eat a very flavorful salad but perhaps am not feeling quite satiated, next time I'm not necessarily going to order the competitor's product that is drenched in olive oil. I'm sure there is some truth to these sorts of "survival of the fittest" arguments, but you can only simplify how people reason abou…
So you agree with me, but still want to ridicule my argument ("parody of itself")? I'm also quite surprised to see a statistician use anecdata as arguments. Humans are predictably irrational, there are mountains of scientific evidence on the topic [0, 1]. The industry plays us like fiddles to get us to consume ever more. There are more parameters than the ones I described above (socialization and long term hormonal e…
I found this study about the tobacco industry's use of the personal responsibility rhetoric: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4318333/
Coca Cola and Nutella seem to do a lot of advertising through sports. They are like parasites living off the idea of rationality and personal responsibility that humans need to live a successful, self-determined life.
I'm not claiming that personal responsibility is no factor here, but it would be just as wrong (and pretty bad for the affected people's mental health) to assume it is the only one.
Re: A Cultural History of Fat
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of plant milks are unsweetened, and there is a high and growing demand for these products—yes these companies want to make money, but it's not as if they were manufacturing the demand, they're merely capitalizing upon it. Better yet is to make one's own oat milk; I agree that they're exorbitantly expensive, albeit (here in the US) the dairy industry is immensely subsidized and so we consumers don't see the true…
Subsidies for milk benefit processors, not producers. Producers today are going bankrupt left and right as they are forced to sell at fixed prices unless they go direct to consumer. It's all the same problem. Allowing a cartel of dairy processors to control to production and delivery of dairy products is equivalent to allowing a cartel of producers (in the case of almonds) and big food is the same. All benefit from e…
Re: A Cultural History of Fat
#55A company that produces food that is more appetizing and less filling than its competitors will sell more of it and beat them in terms of revenue and profit. They either have to align themselves or die/be assimilated. Even without any ill intent, growth seeking in the food industry would have lead to an obesity epidemics. https://soundcloud.com/user-876103472/grow
Re: A Cultural History of Fat
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Subsidies for milk benefit processors, not producers. Producers today are going bankrupt left and right as they are forced to sell at fixed prices unless they go direct to consumer. It's all the same problem. Allowing a cartel of dairy processors to control to production and delivery of dairy products is equivalent to allowing a cartel of producers (in the case of almonds) and big food is the same. All benefit from e…
Oh, I was bringing up the price in comparison to the price of plant milks from a consumer's standpoint—while plant milks seemingly have a high markup from raw materials to product (transportation and storage costs aside), our perception of what makes it expensive has an unrealistic anchor in the subsidized cost of cow's milk. Paying $12 for a gallon of cow's milk vs. $5 for a gallon of oat milk changes the picture a…
Leaving aside the issues with directly comparing plant milk with actual milk, the economics are not what you lay out. Oat milk is really yet another industrial corn product. The caloric content isn't cloudy stuff squeezed into water, it's fructose from corn. In the quest for price stability, corn subsidy is one of the main knobs used by USDA from a subsidy and policy standpoint.
I haven't done a deep analysis of this, but I do buy milk from a farm with a smallish herd and a direct-to-producer model that allows the farmer to actually operate his own dairy and sell milk at a profit. Even with the small scale of the operation, milk costs about $6/gallon. When you buy milk from a scaled dairy operation, the economies of scale are massive... you have 1-2 processing plants handling the milk of tens of thousands of cows.
The plant milk phenomenon is all about allowing massive agribusiness to take over a big product category that has remained regional.
Re: A Cultural History of Fat
#57A company that produces food that is more appetizing and less filling than its competitors will sell more of it and beat them in terms of revenue and profit. They either have to align themselves or die/be assimilated. Even without any ill intent, growth seeking in the food industry would have lead to an obesity epidemics. https://soundcloud.com/user-876103472/grow
Too much focus on growth is a quality that always leads to once doom whether its a person or a corporation. Its sad that our business economics favors this.
Given their already tremendous wealth, they are powerful enough to brainwash the rest of us into helping them (hence the song above).
Re: A Cultural History of Fat
#58A company that produces food that is more appetizing and less filling than its competitors will sell more of it and beat them in terms of revenue and profit. They either have to align themselves or die/be assimilated. Even without any ill intent, growth seeking in the food industry would have lead to an obesity epidemics. https://soundcloud.com/user-876103472/grow
If I eat a snickers bar and afterwards I'm still hungry, I'm not necessarily going to eat another snickers bar. If I eat a very flavorful salad but perhaps am not feeling quite satiated, next time I'm not necessarily going to order the competitor's product that is drenched in olive oil. I'm sure there is some truth to these sorts of "survival of the fittest" arguments, but you can only simplify how people reason abou…
Re: A Cultural History of Fat
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you agree with me, but still want to ridicule my argument ("parody of itself")? I'm also quite surprised to see a statistician use anecdata as arguments. Humans are predictably irrational, there are mountains of scientific evidence on the topic [0, 1]. The industry plays us like fiddles to get us to consume ever more. There are more parameters than the ones I described above (socialization and long term hormonal e…
For all these market forces that are making profits off addictions it is interesting to see how they manage to get away with it in public perception by addressing personal responsibility - while their products are engineered to induce addictions and diminish will power. I found this study about the tobacco industry's use of the personal responsibility rhetoric: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4318333/ Co…
Re: A Cultural History of Fat
#60This article does not discuss in depth the change in diet from mainly protein and fat based diets of the hunter-gatherers to carb-rich diet of today.
We've had a carb rich diet since the neolithic revolution. The obesity epidemics started after WW2. I don't think that they are related.
Purchasing power for below-median wage-earners has stagnated since the 1970s. Lower income levels correlate with higher obesity.
Climate-controlled buildings are now the norm. More efficient heaters and coolers make it cheaper to be in a 20 degree C environment year round. Clement climate correlates geographically with higher obesity.
Canine Distemper Virus has been shown (Lyons, 1982) to cause permanently-elevated levels of obesity in mice. Since then, other infectious diseases have been found to promote obesity in animals: RAV-7, Borna, Scrapie, SMAM-1, Ad-36, Ad-5, Ad-37. Gut parasites produced symptoms similar to metabolic syndrome in dragonflies. Obese humans have been found to have a 3 times higher incidence of evidence of past infection by adenovirus Ad-36 than the non-obese (30% vs. 11%). If twin studies, where one twin had been infected by Ad-36, and the other not, the exposed twin was fatter. Across all studies, evidence of past infection by Ad-36 always correlated with a fatter subject, with causative significance. It even works with viruses originating in nonhuman animals, that do not otherwise cause visible symptoms. A sick bird could make you fat, without ever making you sneeze.
Analyses of digestive tract microbiotic factors have discovered causative significance for obesity in some factors. Experimental fecal transplants have resulted in changes in the recipient's weight and body composition.
Studies of epigenetic DNA methylation, sibling genetics, and maternal weight suggest that children of obese mothers may have greater predisposition to obesity, creating an intergenerational feedback loop. Fat mothers make fat daughters make fat granddaughters. This could be experimentally verified by cloning/twinning a female animal embryo, applying different environmental factors to produce breeding animals of different obesity levels, and implanting each with a second set of clone embryos. The second set of clones would then be kept under identical environmental conditions. Unfortunately, cloning processes themselves introduce epigenetic regulations and deregulations that ultimately result in obesity. Cloned mice get fatter when they get older.
It seems as though older mothers bear children that grow fatter as adults. Children of moms over 30 have higher body fat percentages than children of moms under 25, by about 2.7 percentage points. Both low-birthweight and high-birthweight babies correlate to greater adult obesity, and older mothers are less likely to have middle-birthweight babies.
Sleep deprivation correlates with higher obesity.
In short:
change in foods composition \\\
wage stagnation \\\
literal adenovirus epidemics \\\
change in gut microbiota \\\ OBESITY
intergenerational epigenetics /// (complex cause)
delay in child-rearing ages ///
chronic sleep deprivation ///
other factors??? ///