Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution • Hacker News Board

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#61

Post by pintxo » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 1:48 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #55

tjansen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with many German cities are that they are already full. Infrastructure can't keep up with the population. The building density is so high that it's very difficult to find room for more streets or rails, more schools and other public buildings. Parks are overcrowded at weekends. I think the only solution is to get people out of the cities (or maybe build new cities).

I find that hard to believe. Most German cities are low-rise, not skyscrapers. Elsewhere in this thread, somebody mentioned that Berlin's population today is still below its pre-WWII high.

It was about 4m before the war. Is not about 3.6 Considering that today’s living arrangements (sqft per person) is quite different (larger) than 80 years ago, I am not sure this is working argument.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#62

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #28

mruts wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just a have a free market and abolish building codes.

Increasing the housing supply isn't working. Wealthy landlords can afford buy new houses at a good price for the builder, and then the landlord rents them out at the current rental price, so rental prices don't go down and people can't afford to compete with the prices landlords are willing to pay for houses which is keeping house prices inflated. Unless something significant happens to regulate the housing market we…

[deleted]

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#63

Post by Konnstann » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 3:19 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #54

alasdair_ wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or just a have a free market and abolish building codes. Building codes reduce transaction costs by avoiding having to inspect every single thing in a building every single time the ownership changes. Building codes massively reduce the load on the legal system that would otherwise be required from all the different people suing each other to determine fault when something inevitably breaks. Building codes reduce d…

Can we drop the tired "why don't you move to Somalia" trope? It's fallacious and it's disrespectful towards the people of Somalia.

How is it disrespectful? The majority of the people in Somalia probably share his opinion, and the ones that don't are profiting from the corruption there.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#64

Post by tomp » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

sudoaza wrote: post #4

Yes, housing is a right not a speculation opportunity. Also there should be opportunities for people to get their own houses, like cheap credits with a monthly payment close to the rent.

> Also there should be opportunities for people to get their own houses, like cheap credits with a monthly payment close to the rent

Then everybody would want to buy, and prices would skyrocket, until mortgage is much higher than rent - and you're back to square 1.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#65

Post by LoSboccacc » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 3:49 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #16

AndrewDucker wrote: post #7

Regulate behaviour, not ownership. If you want landlords to behave better, then rather than keeping them small, stick limits on what they can do.

You can only regulate what you can measure. Ownership is very easy to measure. And tax progressively.

And suddenly one landlord owns ten companies trough subsidiaries and trusts. This is yet another nice trick that won't work.

Besides, price and demand curve would still apply where it was one landlord or hundreds.

What would help is to encourage housing density to increase supply. That has two main drive: building regulations (mandate building of a certain height) and taxation (tax building by footprint and not by height/units)

Messing with ownership will only make people creative.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#66

Post by smileysteve » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 3:59 PM UTC

In the U.S., this limit is expressed via property taxes and homestead exemptions; a person living in a building that they own received a ~25% discount on their property assessment;

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#67

Post by MagnumOpus » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

Mirioron wrote: post #32

buro9 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Due to the limits of public transportation Fix this. People live within n time of where they want to be. If people can travel faster then the space within n time can be greater. This is the key to Tokyo and other very large metropolis cities. Have public transport offer high speed and frequent rail routes, and then many local solutions from cycling, walking, buses, trams.

> This is the key to Tokyo and other very large metropolis cities. But they also live in small apartments and homes. I'm not convinced that Tokyo is a good example here. The key to this problem is to have jobs in places that aren't large urban centers. This way the population spreads out and housing becomes more affordable.

> have jobs in places that aren't large urban centers

That creates a very different lower-density city. Think about a sprawl like LA rather than a squeeze like Manhattan. Public transport won't work but parking spaces might actually exist. Your Afghan Bagel place will be 1 hour drive rather than 15 minute by subway on the way to work etc. More space, but less selection and diversity in terms of food, entertainment and other venues.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#68

Post by loco5niner » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #25

choeger wrote: post #17

Everyone and their cat wants to live as close as humanly possible to the hip center of the hip city. But of course, they literally do not want to pay the price. Why is there a vegan bakery specialized in Afghan Bagel[1] around the corner? Because there are enough hip, young professionals to pay for even the most unlikely specialty. Business can afford to cater to the most extraordinary taste, but only because there a…

Everyone and their cat wants to live as close as humanly possible to the hip center of the hip city. I want to live as far from that place as possible.

Agreed. Especially with the homeless problem in Portland.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#69

Post by icebraining » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

Konnstann wrote: post #63

icebraining wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we drop the tired "why don't you move to Somalia" trope? It's fallacious and it's disrespectful towards the people of Somalia.

How is it disrespectful? The majority of the people in Somalia probably share his opinion, and the ones that don't are profiting from the corruption there.

It's disrespectful because there's no actual attempt to draw a serious comparison between the two cases; Somalia is used as a crude stereotype, and the reality of the people living there, and the real progress made in the last years is ignored.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong: tell me, what specific drawbacks do you see in the building standards of Mogadishu or Hargeisa vis-a-vis Berlin?

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#70

Post by mistrial9 » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

no_gravity wrote: post #38

Looking at the problem from a game theory perspective, it looks like this to me: Ambitious people want to live as close to as many other ambitious people as possible. So wherever the density of these 'Hipsters' or 'Cool People' increases, the desirability of the area increases. And by law of supply and demand, prices go up. The willingness and ability to pay higher rent decides who can live in those 'cool areas'. Now…

in theory, theory is 90% of practice; in practice, theory is 10% of practice