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Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

citylab.com

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Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#41

Post by bottled_poe »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #39
buro9 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Due to the limits of public transportation Fix this. People live within n time of where they want to be. If people can travel faster then the space within n time can be greater. This is the key to Tokyo and other very large metropolis cities. Have public transport offer high speed and frequent rail routes, and then many local solutions from cycling, walking, buses, trams.

I guess almost any fix, including better transportation, will mean people/people's jobs will just concentrate faster, outpacing any deceleration of rent increases.

This is a very interesting idea, but I’m not convinced it’s true. Why do you think that might be the outcome?

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#42

Post by dalbasal »

reallydontask wrote: post #21
Cypher wrote: post #2

Nope, because they'll just setup a load of shell companies.

I'm not saying that this would work but as a thought experiment: Any entity that buys a house zoned as residential has to pay a tax of 100% of the value of the house. Private citizens get an exemption on this tax, if their main residence of which you can only have one, and are 18 or older. CGT is 100% (Deductions for home improvements could be added) The municipality builds affordable housing The tax would probably n…

This is pretty much the same as banning non-resident owners, bit it's formally a punitive tax rate rather than a ban.

The problem is still the same problem, rent markets collapse.. so, public housing would have to plug that hole.

I think it's important, in the context of public debate, to keep things simple. If an idea approximately transposes into another one... address them as a single idea.

I'd catalogue this one under. "Owner-occupancy and public housing only."

This is not realistic in most places, but maybe in the context of Berlin it's possible.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#43

Post by alasdair_ »

mruts wrote: post #20
adrianN wrote: post #9

The truth is that rents in Berlin are exceptionally cheap compared to other major cities. Try finding a flat in London or Paris for The only way to keep rents this low in the face of rising demand is public housing that is rented out below market rates to low income tenants, or via a lottery.

Or just a have a free market and abolish building codes.

> Or just a have a free market and abolish building codes.

Building codes reduce transaction costs by avoiding having to inspect every single thing in a building every single time the ownership changes.

Building codes massively reduce the load on the legal system that would otherwise be required from all the different people suing each other to determine fault when something inevitably breaks.

Building codes reduce death from things like fires because they make sure things like fire exits exist.

There are LOTS of countries with minimal building codes. Take "free market" Somalia for instance. Would you seriously switch with them?

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#44

Post by tyfon »

adrianN wrote: post #9

The truth is that rents in Berlin are exceptionally cheap compared to other major cities. Try finding a flat in London or Paris for The only way to keep rents this low in the face of rising demand is public housing that is rented out below market rates to low income tenants, or via a lottery.

One of the reasons for the cheap rent is the fact that the population of Berlin is still below what it was prior to WWII. I found it quite baffling at least when I read about it.

The city got hit _hard_

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#45

Post by Aeolun »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #7

Regulate behaviour, not ownership. If you want landlords to behave better, then rather than keeping them small, stick limits on what they can do.

Yeah, that was my impression when reading the article as well.

If the problem is that new landlords are raising the rent by inordinate amounts, maybe that is what you should restrict instead.

Though I’m not really opposed to breaking up big landlords either, it feels a bit disingenuous to punish people (or companies) for success.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#46

Post by dalbasal »

adrianN wrote: post #9

The truth is that rents in Berlin are exceptionally cheap compared to other major cities. Try finding a flat in London or Paris for The only way to keep rents this low in the face of rising demand is public housing that is rented out below market rates to low income tenants, or via a lottery.

In central London you would struggle to find a flat for 3 times that. That's 1100 (100 meters) sqft for £2600 (€3000 @ €30 per meter).

Even Munich is probably twice that "€10 p sqm centrally located" price.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#47

Post by bayesian_horse »

bottled_poe wrote: post #41
bayesian_horse wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess almost any fix, including better transportation, will mean people/people's jobs will just concentrate faster, outpacing any deceleration of rent increases.

This is a very interesting idea, but I’m not convinced it’s true. Why do you think that might be the outcome?

Because people are urbanizing despite the price hikes. Which means they prefer higher rents to staying where they are or moving. Probably because of other factors like commuting, other common distances being shorter, friends and family.

So if higher prices are indeed a problem, holding people back from urbanizing, you'd think they'd urbanize faster if the pressures against it decrease.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#48

Post by scotty79 »

moccachino wrote: post #33
scotty79 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxing general wealth would be enough if you just wanted money. But what you want is rather change in the behaviour of the wealthy. You want them to take away their money out of real estate market so that it does not inflate the prices. You could achieve that through progressive real estate tax. This would make holding and renting large amounts of real estate less profitable in comparison to other things rich invest…

I don't mean this specifically as a solution to expensive housing, just a general solution to super disparate wealth inequality. The point is not to get more money for the state (income tax could be abolished to offset) but to put a natural negative feedback mechanism on wealth accumulation, instead of the positive feedback mechanism that exists today and makes the uber rich own the world.

I don't think that the sheer fact of some people being incredibly wealthy does much harm and it also can do some good. When the money lands in the hands of rich people it essentially leaves the economy same way as if it was just burned because they won't be giving that money back to real world economy anytime soon. It just lowers inflation a bit so everything becomes a bit cheaper than it otherwise would be.

Rich people being rich is fine. Them buying luxuries for their money or gambling (casinos, stock market, startups) does very little harm and even some good because some of their money comes back to other people and few of them do something good with it.

The problem starts only when their money touches the parts of economy that are shared by other people because they drive the prices up by buying large amount of stuff and hoarding. Things like property or food or raw materials or land. We just need to make those activities unprofitable for them.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#49

Post by rkwasny »

buro9 wrote: post #30
choeger wrote: post #17

Everyone and their cat wants to live as close as humanly possible to the hip center of the hip city. But of course, they literally do not want to pay the price. Why is there a vegan bakery specialized in Afghan Bagel[1] around the corner? Because there are enough hip, young professionals to pay for even the most unlikely specialty. Business can afford to cater to the most extraordinary taste, but only because there a…

> Due to the limits of public transportation Fix this. People live within n time of where they want to be. If people can travel faster then the space within n time can be greater. This is the key to Tokyo and other very large metropolis cities. Have public transport offer high speed and frequent rail routes, and then many local solutions from cycling, walking, buses, trams.

s/Tokyo/Singapore/

If the government wants you to use public transport instead of private cars they have to provide great service 24/7

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#50

Post by tjansen »

I live in a different but still expensive Germany city and rent a apartment from a city-owned public housing company. The rent of the landlord's apartments is 20-30% lower than what you would pay in the free market, and in my neighbourhood I can get a pretty good idea of what people do to get one of those highly desired apartments. It's just crazy. I have heard everything short of bribing the person responsible for selecting renters. Calling her daily, flowers, pity stories.. another way to get into a highly coveted apartment is to get a recommendation from a renter who's leaving, basically taking over their contract. Often that involves paying absurdly high sums to the previous renter for floors and furniture left behind, or doing renovations for them.

By the way, getting into the best kindergartens and schools appears to work like that as well. Many German cities are so overcrowded that you need to network like in socialism to get what you want, as there are things that money can't buy (or at least only a lot more money can buy). Those who are not well connected have a hard time to get the city's services, or at least will end up with worse facilities.

The demand is just higher than the supply, and if the demand can not be controlled by increasing the price, people will find other ways to fight for what they want...

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