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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#71

Post by flashgordon »

onion2k wrote: post #16

It depends what your alternatives are. This thread will fill up with comments saying start-ups won't pay as well as Google et al, but that's only relavent if you can get hired by Google (and you want to be). Comments that state "start-up wages are less than the best paying tech jobs" aren't very useful. If you can't get a job at Google then you need to compare a start-up role with a job you can get. If that's a junio…

It seems you are overestimating the difficulty of getting into a FAANG. The hiring is highly optimized and standardized to attract non-experienced folks which means a rigorous 3 month diet of leetcode and grokking-the-design-interview puts you on very serious chance of making serious mullah in total comp (plus benefits, perks, good work life balance etc).

But you are on spot on. 99% of the time startups wont make you rich and their biggest attraction by far is working on things you are care about and are interested in which you know you wont get at a BigCo (unless you are very very lucky to be working a hot new product blessed by someone high up). So if "interesting" things are what you want to work on why not just do a side project. This wont make you rich but atleast puts you on the path of producing "small" things to build your brand. Prioritizing 5-10 hours a week is not hard. Key is prioritizing.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#72

Post by flashgordon »

buf wrote: post #40

I'm the head of engineering for a startup, was 3rd engineer at Eventbrite, built my own startup valued >$1M, turned down 2 offers at Google. Been doing startups 10+ years. I do startups because I have a problem communicating my ideas in a way to influence larger organizations to do the things that interest me. Simple as that. If I have a theory to move the needle, in a startup, I can do it, analyze it, and launch it…

You can definitely do that as a Head of Eng at a startup. It would be good to see how much freedom (measurably) the employees at your startup have in doing this (either for product initiatives or for technology choices). They certainly would have a smaller "surface area" for selling than in a BigCo (ie with committee for X or a leadership group for Y or a review group for Z) but their freedom is still limited wrt to a VP/Head of eng no?

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#73

Post by sametmax »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #69
sametmax wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to fit exactly what I said: > Start ups will give a chance to junior with a weak resume if he/she can demonstrate skills. They don't hire you on a resume, you need to demonstrate skills. Wether it's a good way to do so is another matter. I had interviews with startup not even asking for my resume, or testing my skills. But I never had a startup getting me through many hoops in the hiring process. 4 steps o…

But whiteboarding / algo trivia are not activities which are capable of demonstrating skill apart from rote memorization and superficial rapid pattern matching.

> Wether it's a good way to do so is another matter.

Do you really read the comments you answer to ?

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#74

Post by dang »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #39
sametmax wrote: post #24

Start ups will give a chance to junior with a weak resume if he/she can demonstrate skills. You may very well end up with a mission above your skill set as well, and grow because of the challenge and responsability. Less bureaucracy and smaller size also mean a quicker hiring process, direct access to most interesting people in the company and a wide overview of the entire product.

Usually this is false. Startups are some of the most aggressive users of whiteboard trivia, live coding, etc., to filter out candidates who don’t fit precisely the mold of people desperate to work at FAANG companies.

Could you please be more careful not to post unsubstantive comments that take HN threads in snarky, glib directions? Discussion quality is noticeably lower when you (or any of us) do this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#75

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

sametmax wrote: post #73
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But whiteboarding / algo trivia are not activities which are capable of demonstrating skill apart from rote memorization and superficial rapid pattern matching.

> Wether it's a good way to do so is another matter. Do you really read the comments you answer to ?

It’s not a way. Nothing to do with bad vs good: it simply fails to satisfy the properties the parent comment attributed.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#76

Post by Hydraulix989 »

ta20202012 wrote: post #37
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of possible reasons: - A lot of people don't know what they are actually worth and undervalue themselves - or they do not understand the caveats of things like dilution and classes of stock - or they were offered stock in units of shares without knowing the valuation - or they accept a job and relocate to the Bay Area from a reasonably-affordable place and mistakenly think that a $100k/year salary is hitting…

Thank you SO much for the very thoughtful answer, this is a lot more sophisticated than "value it at 0". A couple of considerations though: 1. Short of being friends with co-founders have you ever had a company actually share dilution/classes or cap tables with you? They flat out refused and still refuse despite having worked there for a while 2. It is somewhat common knowledge what FAANG salary bands are, but how do…

1.) The best time to make these sort of requests is when you have your unsigned job offer in hands. If they aren't even willing to discuss, that's a red flag.

2.) Get an offer from FAANG and negotiate. You should be getting market value.

3.) If you aren't confident, then you shouldn't risk YOUR career on them. I can write a book on this one.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#78

Post by Agathos »

matfil wrote: post #66
Agathos wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's noisy and distracting when it's taking place ten feet away from your open plan workspace.

This is far more compelling as an argument against open plans than against table tennis. Taking a break from a problem can be really valuable. Personally, I skew more "take a walk" than "table tennis", but having some indoor options for people who prefer those (or rainy days...) doesn't seem such a bad thing.

"Should I work at a startup?" Eh, maybe, but be skeptical of their promises.

"Should I work at a startup that puts developers in private offices?" Hell yes!

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#79

Post by souprock »

badfrog wrote: post #56
mikeheaton wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious, how much is it then?

For FB/Google: L3: ~$165k L4: ~$225k L5: ~$335k L6: ~$450k I think Amazon is a little less and Netflix is a little more.

Suppose you have a family.

Moving the decimal point to account for the cost of housing, L6 is just ~$45k at FB/Google. That is not something to get excited about.

Yes, it works out differently if you are happy to rent a garage with a roommate. In that case, the pay only needs to be adjusted by a factor of 2, making the L6 have ~$225k at FB/Google. Enjoy your shared garage.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#80

Post by cco »

I'm really disappointed (?) that nearly all of these answers are about money. I strongly prefer smaller companies for the larger impact you can have, the intimacy between a smaller team, and more freedom for self directed work.

That is worth a lot of money to me, to each there own, but I definitely prefer less money but a more enjoyable work experience.

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