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Trolls Are Real

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Re: Trolls Are Real

#91

Post by rayiner »

mlinksva wrote: post #79
rayiner wrote: post #59

Trolls are definitely real, and we need reforms, particularly at the PTO, to cut down on the number of bad patents. At the same time, there are companies who make lots of money free riding on other peoples’ IP. And that’s also a huge problem. For example, YouTube became a multi-billion business ripping off content companies. YouTube doesn’t create a product-it’s just a middle man for content produced by other people.…

EFF advocates for civil liberties, not for Silicon Valley or the US. But for Silicon Valley and US, it's debatable whether trying to maintain continued dominance through stronger IP is a good bet. China and elsewhere are switching to producing more IP faster, even if starting far behind. It's not a simple or binary choice, but consider whether over the next decades it will be more advantageous to make it easier for U…

> EFF advocates for civil liberties, not for Silicon Valley or the US.

Patents are business regulation. There is a civil liberties element to business regulation, but it’s well accepted that civil liberties concerns are attenuated when you’re talking about business conduct.

There are lots of regulations that hurt small businesses and have a civil liberties angle, such as overly burdensome occupational licensing. But you don’t see ACLU spending a lot of effort on those as a top priority. EFF spends time on patent far disproportionate to the civil liberties impact.

As to your second point. Copying is bad and destroys innovation. Look at what’s happened to PCs. The vast majority of PC makers, Lenovo, Asus, etc., produce no innovation. They release fungible machines at cut rate margins that leave no room for R&D. The only companies innovating are companies like Apple, who have huge IP moats. Copyright protecting iOS and MacOS. Patents protecting things like MacBook touch pads. Trademark protecting the brand. Trade secrets protecting their vertically integrated manufacturing process.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#92

Post by mirimir »

mirimir wrote: post #74
hownottowrite wrote: post #11

Reference: Speech given by USPTO Director Andre Iancu to the Eastern District of Texas Bar Association https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/10/19/iancu-risk-takers-pate...

I guess that he's playing to the audience. Maybe some of those attorneys are major Trump supporters. Or maybe it's just generic hate for plaintiffs' firms. Which primarily support Democrats.

Edit: OK, I'm wrong about plaintiffs' firms. I see that it's trial lawyers, who have traditionally supported Democrats, who have pressed Senate Democrats to oppose legislation to control patent trolls. And that it's Republicans who have spearheaded such legislation.

So why, then, is a Trump appointee playing to patent trolls in the audience in East Texas?

Re: Trolls Are Real

#93

Post by TomMckenny »

acomjean wrote: post #15
hownottowrite wrote: post #11

Reference: Speech given by USPTO Director Andre Iancu to the Eastern District of Texas Bar Association https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/10/19/iancu-risk-takers-pate...

Yikes, thats pretty bad. In a single brush he dismisses those small business horror stories as “fairy tails”. Not to get to political, but the with the current us political environment it’s not entirely surprising. Also using last century examples ( IBM and 3com ) is a little strange.

It is political. Andrei Iancu did not appear from thin air (nor did Ajit Pai), they are political appointees.

Maybe we don't discuss the proximate cause of the problem for some strategic reason, I don't know. But when we don't, we spiral into unproductive discussions about the innate morality of all patents. Maybe that's good but isn't going to solve anything in the foreseeable future.

And for the record, my biggest worry too is a fatal patent shakedown for my unlaunched startup. Actually I'm surprised the trolls haven't started selling "insurance" given the climate of fear they've created.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#94

Post by danaur »

mjevans wrote: post #75

Re Patents (Just get rid of them entirely!) Please prove me wrong that they aren't effective and are a myth. Processes of how to do things often come down to engineering and math; if given the same goal a solution is likely to be similar at it's core as for any given problem there is probably an ideal bound and variations of effort will produce similar results or results optimized slightly to different circumstances.…

How would you incentivize drug research without patents?

Re: Trolls Are Real

#95

Post by rayiner »

mirimir wrote: post #92
mirimir wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that he's playing to the audience. Maybe some of those attorneys are major Trump supporters. Or maybe it's just generic hate for plaintiffs' firms. Which primarily support Democrats.

Edit: OK, I'm wrong about plaintiffs' firms. I see that it's trial lawyers, who have traditionally supported Democrats, who have pressed Senate Democrats to oppose legislation to control patent trolls. And that it's Republicans who have spearheaded such legislation. So why, then, is a Trump appointee playing to patent trolls in the audience in East Texas?

The thing about plaintiffs’ firms is over simplistic. Republicans oppose plaintiffs firms that file consumer lawsuits. Patents by contrast are B2B litigation, and the factions there are different. The anti-patent folks are largely Internet tech companies, who usually support Democrats. Many more “establishment” companies, by contrast, are not so strongly Democrat aligned, are relatively pro-patent. Apple, DuPont, Ford, General Electric, IBM, Microsoft, and Pfizer all opposed further watering down of the patent system after the AIA was passed in 2013.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#96

Post by mirimir »

rayiner wrote: post #95
mirimir wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: OK, I'm wrong about plaintiffs' firms. I see that it's trial lawyers, who have traditionally supported Democrats, who have pressed Senate Democrats to oppose legislation to control patent trolls. And that it's Republicans who have spearheaded such legislation. So why, then, is a Trump appointee playing to patent trolls in the audience in East Texas?

The thing about plaintiffs’ firms is over simplistic. Republicans oppose plaintiffs firms that file consumer lawsuits. Patents by contrast are B2B litigation, and the factions there are different. The anti-patent folks are largely Internet tech companies, who usually support Democrats. Many more “establishment” companies, by contrast, are not so strongly Democrat aligned, are relatively pro-patent. Apple, DuPont, For…

Thanks. I'm mostly familiar with plaintiffs firms doing public-interest class tort and antitrust. And there, memorial photos with Clinton and Obama were the norm.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#97

Post by robdachshund »

mirimir wrote: post #74
hownottowrite wrote: post #11

Reference: Speech given by USPTO Director Andre Iancu to the Eastern District of Texas Bar Association https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/10/19/iancu-risk-takers-pate...

I guess that he's playing to the audience. Maybe some of those attorneys are major Trump supporters. Or maybe it's just generic hate for plaintiffs' firms. Which primarily support Democrats.

Patent trolling has been around well before trump came into office. Id argue the two have very little to do with each other.

It's not like America just went bad suddenly when trump got elected. We've had issues like this for a very long time. It's just easier to see the corruption now when the guy in charge isn't pretending to be nice like all the other ones.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#98

Post by ndnxhs »

danaur wrote: post #94
mjevans wrote: post #75

Re Patents (Just get rid of them entirely!) Please prove me wrong that they aren't effective and are a myth. Processes of how to do things often come down to engineering and math; if given the same goal a solution is likely to be similar at it's core as for any given problem there is probably an ideal bound and variations of effort will produce similar results or results optimized slightly to different circumstances.…

How would you incentivize drug research without patents?

Government funded. Drug research is an obvious benefit to every single person.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#99

Post by mirimir »

robdachshund wrote: post #97
mirimir wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that he's playing to the audience. Maybe some of those attorneys are major Trump supporters. Or maybe it's just generic hate for plaintiffs' firms. Which primarily support Democrats.

Patent trolling has been around well before trump came into office. Id argue the two have very little to do with each other. It's not like America just went bad suddenly when trump got elected. We've had issues like this for a very long time. It's just easier to see the corruption now when the guy in charge isn't pretending to be nice like all the other ones.

I agree.

Upon reflection, it's more that Andrei Iancu is being quoted out of context. The featured quote is:

> "Remarkably, in what I believe amounts to Orwellian ‘doublespeak,’ those who’ve been advancing the patent troll narrative argue that they do so because they are actually pro-innovation. That by their highlighting, relentlessly, the dangers in the patent system, they actually encourage innovation. Right!"

Re: Trolls Are Real

#100

Post by eruci »

True. I recently got an email from someone claiming they had reason to believe I was infringing on... I wrote back "I believe you have no reason"
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