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New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

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Re: New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

#91
post #64

Anyone else working in tech for the past few years having more frequent existential crises about what they have enabled? I have never worked at FB, but I've worked at a few well known yet somewhat controversial companies (in fintech, marketplaces, etc.) that I sometimes feel uneasy about.

Took me several years past school just to get used to the ordinary level of dishonesty and scumminess that's common to pretty much all business, let alone the worse stuff. Sometimes I think my parents (and, to be fair, children's media) messed up by giving me such a keen sense of right and wrong. Enough otherwise-decent people (like, almost all of them) seem to just look at you like there's something wrong with you w…

Empathy _sucks_.

But you're a better person for it, don't forget that.

Life's a shitty wooden roller coaster that jostles your neck too much for most of us, but the alternative is not experiencing it at all.

We're pretty fortunate. Start looking for jobs which align with your ideals.

Take a paycut and work at a non profit.

Find an open source maintainer role at a company somewhere.

Find a role at a company building a product you like.

You can do it relatively passively while still working. No harm in looking!

Re: New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

#92

Ever wonder why Facebook is giving everyone on earth so much free software and processing power? They seem to be making money, how do they do it? [10 minutes of deep thought] Ok, we get it. If someone offers you something of value for free, politely say "no thanks" and run the other way. Edit: If a for-profit company offers you something of value at no cost, you or someone else will end up paying for it later. Advert…

> If someone offers you something of value for free, politely say "no thanks" and run the other way. Where does free software fit in this?

Free software has unfortunately turned into a major enabler of the advertising economy. Take Android for example. Before Android, phone makers had to pay for their mobile OS. It was something like $15 to license Symbian. Android destroyed Symbian, in part because it was “free.” But what was the result? It’s not actually free to develop Android, and most of the work is done by paid developers. That investment is recouped, of course, by Google’s data mining and advertising platforms built on Android. And Android destroyed the for-pay mobile OS market—it’s impossible to compete with a “free” OS.

The same thing happened to web browsers, though it’s Microsoft’s fault. You had to pay for web browsers back in the day. And then Microsoft bundled IE to leverage its OS monopoly. And then Google made Chrome, an ad supported browser. Now, the browser is just a purpose-built vector for advertising. Even though Mozilla still exists, almost all its revenue comes from Google.

The problem with free software is that unpaid developers can’t really do things on the scale of Android or Chrome. Today, the overwhelming majority of Linux contributions come from paid developers. That forces you to think about how to monetize the software, if you can’t just charge for it. And that leads to advertising, at least on the consumer side. Open source works okay for businesses, where companies like RedHat can pay for development through support contracts. But it’s been a disaster for consumers. The landscape is littered with formerly viable software niches (photo and video editors, word processors and spreadsheets, etc.) that have been decimated by either free software or free web apps which are linked to advertising.

Re: New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

#94
post #60
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following this. So we have some victim's email that they've linked to Facebook, and we add some fake emails to pad out the minimum number of required emails. So you have to design a series of ads that are enticing enough to click on, and the victim will click on it. When they realize they clicked on a fake site, they'll exit it. How many people here have clicked on Facebook ads in the last week? It seems incr…

This was recently on hn: https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the-secret-facebook-war...

Parent comment made me think of exactly the same article! For those that don't want to click through: an ex-Mormon used targeted Facebook ads to "proselytize" to people they knew from the church, about problems with the church and reasons they should consider leaving it.

Re: New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

#95
post #88
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially not from a user perspective, if you’re a social worker you now have to know how to use 5-10 complicated and error prone IT systems, on top of your regular job, and we just keep on adding more. I mean,those 5-10 systems are linked to their work on top of that there are another 5-10 adiministrative systems and maybe 50 different digital forms. The workers are users of those IT systems, but not the end-user…

> “better for less money" : According to what sources? What indicators? I’m tempted to say “pick one”. Workers are less satisfied, more stressed and less efficient. Citizens are less satisfied and receive a lower quality of service. Financially it depends, on paper it’s better but if you add in the cost of sick days and the impact of lower citizen life quality has on society, then a lot of digitisation has been disas…

Again, you don't give any sources or references about what you are stating.

If I can chose an indicator, then I pick my personal experience. I live in Europe and I'm happy with the digital experience of social services I have. I'm 28 years old so I experienced a bit of the pre-internet administrative era and digitization is definitively an improvement. Oftentimes, processes are simplified and can be done remotely, which is definitively a net plus for all disabled people.

> Workers are less satisfied, more stressed and less efficient.

Digitization must be accompanied with change management, and the society's laws must be adapted to a digitized society. In my personal opinion, we should develop idea such as Universal Basic Income, and not make "work" as mandatory as it was. I agree with you that operating everyday administrative softwares isn't a fulfilling job to everyone.

Re: New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

#96

Serious question: what do people expect will come up from all these lawsuits? AFAIK Facebook has been sued over and over again since almost the beginning. None of these suits are criminal in nature so noone will go to jail. Even with billion dollar penalty these are penuts and usually gets the stock up now that investors know this specific case is closed. So really whats the purpose of all of this? Its like hitting M…

The point of a lawsuit isn't to destroy Facebook or its leadership. It's to stop them from doing some specific thing, and get compensation for the damage that specific thing caused.

Oh I see thanks. So they only break law once get punished and never break it again. Because 0.000000005% of their revenue will teach them a lesson.

Re: New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

#97

Anyone else working in tech for the past few years having more frequent existential crises about what they have enabled? I have never worked at FB, but I've worked at a few well known yet somewhat controversial companies (in fintech, marketplaces, etc.) that I sometimes feel uneasy about.

A lot of stuff that I worked on looked like a net-positive at first, but ended up as a zero sum game. Now I'm producing an affordable, detailed video course that teaches ordinary people auto engineering. It's the most satisfying project I ever worked on but I'm very dependent on companies and products that I don't love: Google, YouTube, Facebook. I don't enjoy dealing with things like Instagram and that directly cost…

That's what I feel conflicted with as well when I'm building my products as well. I actually am a huge fan of your content and I did find it through a google search asking about parts of a car. I am glad that it brought me to finding it but I feel that especially for content creators there's not a whole lot of options you can have if you want to spread the word. I definitely will be throwing a purchase towards your video series later today.

Re: New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

#98

Anyone else working in tech for the past few years having more frequent existential crises about what they have enabled? I have never worked at FB, but I've worked at a few well known yet somewhat controversial companies (in fintech, marketplaces, etc.) that I sometimes feel uneasy about.

Years ago, I used to feel happy that I am not working for a bank or a wall street firm. Now I am not so sure who is worse - wall street or tech companies, especially the massive ones. Gone are the days of "do no evil" etc, it is just a shit show out there.

Problem is, for all this anguish, I don't know a way out. At least with banks, wall street etc, I can switch to a community bank or something. What exactly is the alternative to Android/iOS, for example?

Re: New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, uninstalling all the apps and starting fresh is exactly what I've been wanting to do for a while. Now I have the motivation for it. Goodjob developers (ones with the Facebook SDK), you played yourself.

I believe your data (well not necessarily "your" data because facebook doesnt know who you are), but some data created by you can be accessed by facebook via other people's profiles simply by way of hearing your voice through the other person's app. This can be true for any app with access to microphone. I have also started fresh but I believe the problem goes well beyond just deleting your profiles and apps.

“We are connecting all the people in the world” has a different meaning now. Makes my blood boil.

Re: New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

#100

nit, > Facebook is facing a slew of lawsuits and regulatory inquiries over privacy issues, including a U.S. Federal Trade Commission investigation into disclosures that Facebook inappropriately shared information belonging to 87 million users with the defunct British political consulting firm Cambridge Analytica. Cambridge Analytica is not defunct, but rather changed its name to Emerdata. It's too bad Reuters didn't…

>Cambridge Analytica is not defunct, but rather changed its name to Emerdata. It's too bad Reuters didn't get that part correct. That's not true, I used to work there. Everyone was laid off in July or so. I haven't heard of anyone joining Emerdata, and I do see those guys now and again. I know where all the technical people work. Emerdata was created before the media shitstorm to absorb all the pointless corporate en…

> Please notice that you have engaged in lazy misinformation-spreading and you're participating a conspiracy theory. It's attractive to think that you're hot on the tail of a shadowy illuminati-esque group, but that's not the case. It was just an ad tech company with a few political clients and some snake oil regarding psychographics.

To attack me as you have is both completely unnecessary and undermines your position. Indeed, it might even deepen folks' convictions that it is in the public's best interest that CA is well and truly shut down, and its employees closely scrutinized.

However, as someone who felt the need to create an account specifically to make this statement, I suppose that you either don't understand HN norms of respectful conduct or don't particularly care.

Yes, a basic search on "Cambridge Analytica Emerdata" yields reports that paint a conflicting story of whether the operation is indeed dead. Given their deeds and your statements, good riddance.

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