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Trolls Are Real

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Re: Trolls Are Real

#61

Post by pnw_hazor »

amelius wrote: post #2

The patent system was broken from the start. The incentives are all wrong, as USPTO officers get paid more, the more patents they approve. It's like paying fishermen for the fish they didn't catch.

The are paid on the GS salary scale. Examiners have a quota of "counts" where each count corresponds to some action they take during examination.

It doesn't make any difference to them if they allow or reject patents. The more rounds of prosecution it takes means more counts for the examiner. Each round after the first requires additional fees from the applicant.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#62

Post by jMyles »

rayiner wrote: post #59

Trolls are definitely real, and we need reforms, particularly at the PTO, to cut down on the number of bad patents. At the same time, there are companies who make lots of money free riding on other peoples’ IP. And that’s also a huge problem. For example, YouTube became a multi-billion business ripping off content companies. YouTube doesn’t create a product-it’s just a middle man for content produced by other people.…

> A world where you can release a chip or a drug or a jet engine and have a Chinese company immediately copy it and sell a competitor at a fraction of the price with no consequences is one that’s not good for Silicon Valley in the long run.

I have no problem living in a world where the government is unable to exact violence against people for copying data.

This seems to me to be an entirely artificial crime whose existence has been important for humanity so far, but which is now a human rights affront.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#63

Post by pnw_hazor »

dahart wrote: post #48
amelius wrote: post #2

The patent system was broken from the start. The incentives are all wrong, as USPTO officers get paid more, the more patents they approve. It's like paying fishermen for the fish they didn't catch.

Do you have a source for what the incentives are and how patent examiners are being paid? Do you know for a fact that it's per-approval, rather than per-application, or salaried with small commissions, or plain salaried? Assuming you're right, how would you fix the incentives?

Not even close to how it works.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#64

Post by monochromatic »

jMyles wrote: post #62
rayiner wrote: post #59

Trolls are definitely real, and we need reforms, particularly at the PTO, to cut down on the number of bad patents. At the same time, there are companies who make lots of money free riding on other peoples’ IP. And that’s also a huge problem. For example, YouTube became a multi-billion business ripping off content companies. YouTube doesn’t create a product-it’s just a middle man for content produced by other people.…

> A world where you can release a chip or a drug or a jet engine and have a Chinese company immediately copy it and sell a competitor at a fraction of the price with no consequences is one that’s not good for Silicon Valley in the long run. I have no problem living in a world where the government is unable to exact violence against people for copying data. This seems to me to be an entirely artificial crime whose exi…

What changed it from being important to being a human rights affront?

Re: Trolls Are Real

#65

Post by monochromatic »

amelius wrote: post #2

The patent system was broken from the start. The incentives are all wrong, as USPTO officers get paid more, the more patents they approve. It's like paying fishermen for the fish they didn't catch.

That’s not even close to true.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#66

Post by pnw_hazor »

greglindahl wrote: post #52
z3t4 wrote: post #8

Patents are meant to protect you from bigger companies muscling you out. They have however found a loophole by acquiring as many patents as possible hoping that will scare you. That strategy however doesnt help against trolls. So they lobby to weaken the patent system to make it easier to steal ideas from small startups.

Patents aren't "meant to protect you from bigger companies muscling you out". That's a common story told to justify them, but US patents are meant to do what the US Constitution says about them: “To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.” Many people who do small startups think patents ar…

Their investors sure like them though.

Patents are business assets that can be very important for valuation during exits or funding rounds.

In most cases, due diligence auditors are going to want to see a company's patent portfolio. A bad or weak portfolio may not tank the deal, but it certainly impacts valuation.

I have seen this first hand, if BigCo is choosing between two or more companies to acquire, they are more likely to select the one with the stronger patent portfolio.

edit-to-add: trademarks are very important too -- and often overlooked by startups until it is too late. Trademark trolls are real too.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#67

Post by rayiner »

jMyles wrote: post #62
rayiner wrote: post #59

Trolls are definitely real, and we need reforms, particularly at the PTO, to cut down on the number of bad patents. At the same time, there are companies who make lots of money free riding on other peoples’ IP. And that’s also a huge problem. For example, YouTube became a multi-billion business ripping off content companies. YouTube doesn’t create a product-it’s just a middle man for content produced by other people.…

> A world where you can release a chip or a drug or a jet engine and have a Chinese company immediately copy it and sell a competitor at a fraction of the price with no consequences is one that’s not good for Silicon Valley in the long run. I have no problem living in a world where the government is unable to exact violence against people for copying data. This seems to me to be an entirely artificial crime whose exi…

That’s the tail wagging the dog. People point to restrictions on individuals, like preventing people from copying songs for friends, but the dog here is business models like Youtube’s or Huawei’s built on free riding. The human rights angle doesn’t have the same weight when you’re talking about profit-seeking business practices.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#68

Post by close04 »

leesalminen wrote: post #47
close04 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are all responsible for breaking our country. Every. Single. One. Of. Us. That's not how it works. Unless all Americans are responsible for an American barn catching fire because the American owner tossed an American cigarette butt inside. No, politics get ruined by politicians. And politicians are put there by some of the people. Not all of the people. I know you'd like to lessen the burden on your shoulders an…

So what you’re saying is that all problems in our country are caused by the current administration and that democrats have never done anything detrimental to the country? It would seem to me that you’re the one assigning blame away from yourself. I blame all of us equally for allowing us to get to where we are today. I’m equally unimpressed with this administration as the last.

No, I'm saying that every issue caused by the current administration has its voters at the root of it. Not all voters.

And you have to admit that the heavy-handed way the current administration had been conducting its business is a new low. Or at least a local minimum.

Re: Trolls Are Real

#69

Post by pnw_hazor »

amelius wrote: post #51
kurthr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to be fair they also get paid for each patent they reject... so like a fisherman who gets paid each time he casts a line, they get paid for office actions. Of course there are complexities to both the approvals and rejections (office actions), which have to be justified and potential reviews by other examiners. So it may be broken, but not the way you imply.

After a patent is approved, there will be more fees down the line, such as for amending or maintaining the patent. Therefore, the USPTO will make more money from an approved patent than a rejected patent.

Post issuance maintenance fees are a good thing.

They encourage patent owners to abandon patents earlier than their maximum term (20 years after filing) if they don't want them any more.

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