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RIP Culture War Thread

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261–270 of 313 posts

Re: RIP Culture War Thread

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sampling of the posts linked in the article seem to indicate otherwise. What is your evidence?

Here's one that seems to sum it up pretty well. https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9174vt/cult... is a 2-part comment advocating for > Mandatory abortions of the congenitally ill. > Removal of tax incentives for homosexual marriages > Corporal or capital punishment for adultery. > Mental illness/having mental health medication prescribed disqualifying voting. > Paid sterilisation (i.e., trading your fec…

>Is this objectionable enough for you?

No. Most of it is objectionable to me, but none is objectionable enough to ban discussions around it.

Re: RIP Culture War Thread

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one that seems to sum it up pretty well. https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9174vt/cult... is a 2-part comment advocating for > Mandatory abortions of the congenitally ill. > Removal of tax incentives for homosexual marriages > Corporal or capital punishment for adultery. > Mental illness/having mental health medication prescribed disqualifying voting. > Paid sterilisation (i.e., trading your fec…

>Is this objectionable enough for you? No. Most of it is objectionable to me, but none is objectionable enough to ban discussions around it.

I'm not saying this kind of discussion should be banned for how objectionable it is.

I'm saying the fact that the moderators have blessed this comment is objectionable for the many reasons I've put above.

By all means, talk about this. But promoting a laundry list of unsubstantiated ideas that are no more than a thin veneer around human rights abuses just strikes me as... irrational.

Re: RIP Culture War Thread

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop looking at improvements in a “breakthrough” model that becomes equal parts breathless and mindless with each new toy. Start looking at long term, systematic improvements thst raise standards of living, improve education, and reduce conflict. While people are busy fantasizing that they’re changing the world with their latest scooter or delivery app, there are actually groups and individuals who slave away at the…

You sound like you've seen/read Kentaro Toyama's "Ten Myths of ICT4D" [0] [0] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/...

I’d never seen that, but wow... I love it.

Re: RIP Culture War Thread

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is if you allow those comments, then by extension you do in fact support them. FALSE. But you do in fact support censorship (or at least deplatforming, which I vehemently despise). Here's what your position is like. Remember that baker in Colorado who wouldn't bake a cake for a gay wedding, because he felt that he would be participating in something he didn't think was morally right? You're agreeing wit…

You're making a false equivalence here and assuming they're the same and your logic is incredibly irrational here but I'm going to try to address it in the best manner I can: In the baker case, he decided that he would not support gay people. I believe gay people should be a protected group (as they are not harmful nor do they generally espouse harmful beliefs). You're right in that he felt that he would be supportin…

I wrote a scathing reply last night, but didn't post it. I will try to be more moderate today.

Publication does not mean endorsement of the view. You see this in the disclaimer in all the editorials: "The views expressed are those of the author, and do not necessarily reflect the position of [publication]". They can publish, on their platform, views that they disagree with. On that point, you are simply wrong.

But your views here (that publication equals endorsement, and that communities should shut down views they don't accept) - I find those views to be odious. Contrary to the ideals of America, even. Should I be able to get you banned from HN? If they don't, should I say that HN endorses your views, and get a howling mob to shut HN down?

That's the fundamental issue here. It's not just those people out there. It's you. Your views offend people. It's going to happen to you. Think well whether you really want odious views removed.

And it's going to be me. That's why I'm so defensive here. I already hold views that some find odious; as society moves its position, I will hold more. Within the next ten years (and maybe a whole lot sooner), this is going to be me. That's why I'm opposed to societal censorship. If a mob can shut down the alt right for being too far outside society, they can shut down you and me when they decide that we're too far outside the new norm.

Should we just accept society's definition of what is right? No. Either there is a real right and wrong, or their isn't. If there is, why do we think society will converge on it? Why do we think that society's view evolves to ever-increasing correctness? (It has, in the past, evolved to ever-increasing conformity with the current view, but that doesn't say much.) Rwanda, for instance, abruptly decided that murdering one race was perfectly good. China decided that social pressure to conform to the party line was good. (You may say that was imposed on them by the party, and you'd be right. But it still became the way the society behaved.)

On the other hand, if there is no real right and wrong, why should we treat society's current views as if they had moral force?

About the baker: If you don't like that one, try this. A print shop prints flyers for a Richard Spencer rally. Is the print shop endorsing Richard Spencer's views? How about if they design the flyer? Where do you draw the lines between what happened on CW, the print shop, and the bake shop, and why do you draw them there?

Re: RIP Culture War Thread

#265
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Devil and Daniel Webster is a better reference here - if you chop down all the laws and norms that shield the Devil what is left to shield you? By condoning silencing there is the risk you will be silenced - and the article demonstrates how the same means of suppression may be applied when your norms are judged unacceptable and it is intolerable for another to not censor. Both have valid points and the pr…

> First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a socialist. > Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a trade unionist. > Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a Jew. > Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. A translation of the German poem by pastor Martin Niemöller [1] [1] h…

Germany censors Nazis now, though. What lesson do we take from that?

Re: RIP Culture War Thread

#266
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a socialist. > Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a trade unionist. > Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a Jew. > Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. A translation of the German poem by pastor Martin Niemöller [1] [1] h…

Germany censors Nazis now, though. What lesson do we take from that?

Yes, they've been censoring Nazis (and Swastikas and a whole lot of other symbols) ever since the end of WWII.

They censor blood in games, too.

The quote is from a German pastor, not a representative of the German government or its people.

Re: RIP Culture War Thread

#267
post #88
post #34

I can only describe Scott as a paragon of intellectual honesty and a true proponent of fair and unbiased discourse. So it saddens me to see him [partially] silenced by trolls and people who are dishonestly pushing their agendas. I can imagine how many discussions and people have been silenced in a similar manner, especially when things are more muddled.

+1, I don't always agree with him but I don't think there's another blogger who can touch him for niceness, thought-provokingness, and intellectual courage. He's like a walking, talking manifestation of the HN submission/commenting policy. (For anyone who's just learning about him, there's a "About/Top Posts" on the top menu. He's probably most well-known for writing on contentious political topics with unusual civil…

That's a great article, thanks! I'll have to read more of his stuff.

Re: RIP Culture War Thread

#268
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just 'companies', it's people. Reddit has become beyond frustrating because of how siloed subreddits have become. I have to visit a mix of politics, news, and yes, the_donald, to even begin to get a breadth of happenings and news. This was never more apparent than this whole Smollet case. After it was found that it was a hoax, not only were all threads pointing out it was a hoax removed, but also all previou…

I had the opposite experience with the Smollet case. I actually never heard or cared about Smollet till it started popping up as the #1 and #2 stories in r/news. As someone who is on the left of political spectrum and politically fairly active, I don't of know anyone who really thought Smollet was some representation of the political left. The fact that he was actively "brigaded" and "upvoted" in r/news and r/conserv…

There are neutral spaces (on Reddit) but they are not popular because they don't make people feel good by confirming their biases. Most prefer attacking feckless strawmen over having substantive arguments.

Re: RIP Culture War Thread

#269
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a socialist. > Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a trade unionist. > Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a Jew. > Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. A translation of the German poem by pastor Martin Niemöller [1] [1] h…

Germany censors Nazis now, though. What lesson do we take from that?

>Germany censors Nazis now, though. What lesson do we take from that?

Kill Nazis before they kill you.

Re: RIP Culture War Thread

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess they're talking about niche gaming forums. I know a bunch myself - /r/Factorio, /r/KerbalSpaceProgram, /r/Subnautica, /r/StardewValley... oh wait, the latter two aren't that niche. In my experience, it's a matter of focus and moderation. Unfocused groups turn quickly into toxic cesspools, whether the groups are made of nerds (e.g. 4chan) or genpop (Facebook threads, or comment sections in those publicat…

There are plenty of factors that play into how or why a forum turns to shit. You're right that size or "niche" isn't always the dominating factor, but in most cases, it's clearly important. There are, on the other hand, plenty of incredibly niche and focused communities that do turn toxic and insufferable (as any Darkfall game shows). People are complex and we tend to talk in short-hand because we don't have the time…

How toxic was dark fall, what was the type of game and what was the effort barrier required to play it?
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