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Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

nytimes.com

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Re: Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

#21

Post by caseymarquis »

drharby wrote: post #15
caseymarquis wrote: post #10

I wonder if there's a way to democratize inexpensive health testing and see these trends faster? Imagine a world where you're testing your blood/sweat/saliva/vitals daily and semi-anonymously sending the results to be analysed using statistical methods. A doctor can give you a one time use current diagnoses voucher to add into the system for serious diseases. The whole thing is voluntary. There's definitely some dyst…

If only there were a medical device company capable or cheap blood test processing to disrupt and innovate this field:^)

Is that the actual constraint on the system though? Are existing technologies not up to the task? Or are we failing to build a system like this with existing technology even though it's possible. Would a robotic assembly line with existing medical testing technologies be possible?

Re: Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

#22

Post by rum3 »

caseymarquis wrote: post #10

I wonder if there's a way to democratize inexpensive health testing and see these trends faster? Imagine a world where you're testing your blood/sweat/saliva/vitals daily and semi-anonymously sending the results to be analysed using statistical methods. A doctor can give you a one time use current diagnoses voucher to add into the system for serious diseases. The whole thing is voluntary. There's definitely some dyst…

The US health care system is dystopian. These are just challenges that are not possible to ignore.

Re: Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

#23

Post by orf »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #18

I was a military wife for a lot of years. I have very serious health problems. Doctors officially blame that on my genes, which can't be changed, so it's a de facto means to throw their hands in the air and call me unfixable. I think environmental factors are a big part of the problem and that those can be addressed. I lived on a military base for 2.75 years where there was one tap in the house labeled "potable water…

Seems your condition is very different from that of a newborn baby with an under developed and fragile immune system, who's mothers are fed mistruths about how harmful vaccines are.

I don't see how your story relates in any way about harmful anti-vax groups (and vaccines in general) other than "I got some unrelated help at one point". So yes, we can absolutely be happy they are being demonitized.

That being said I am sorry that your doctor treated you like that and I am glad you did manage to help yourself.

Re: Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

#24

Post by bitexploder »

hu3 wrote: post #6

This is really bad. Most bad things in life are reversible but this degree of health damage isn't. May everyone responsible for this be exemplarily punished to deter this kind of disregard for human life from happening again. > Since then, the Defense Department has admitted that it allowed a firefighting foam to slip into at least 55 drinking water systems at military bases around the globe, sometimes for generation…

They will not be punished. They never are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Flats_Plant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Alamos_National_Laboratory...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_Site

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_of_the_United_...

The "problems" kill people. From the governments perspective this soft, civilian side, collateral damage is a required cost of our military machine. Inside of the military you have no real chance unless it is egregious beyond comprehension to ever get any kind of remedy.

The government will poison you and your family and then look at you with dead eyes and pat your survivors on the head and tell you to move on. EVERY one of those sites have a history of medical issues in the nearby community. A little "light" water table poisoning is nothing to the government if people can't pursue the vast history and documented scope of nuclear weapons production poisoning people.

Re: Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

#25

Post by js2 »

I grew up drinking and bathing in the toxic waters around a military base in North Carolina. Thirty years later, I went back to investigate.:

https://psmag.com/environment/what-happened-at-camp-lejeune

From the 1950s until at least 1985, the drinking water was contaminated with toxic chemicals at levels 240 to 3400 times higher than what is permitted by safety standards. ... Camp Lejeune has been characterized as a candidate for the worst water contamination case in U.S. history—and I am one of up to a million people who were poisoned. The tragedy, though, is hardly all in the past.

According to the Project on Government Oversight (POGO), the military's failures are continuing today; mistakes are being repeated at our bases overseas, and, in foreign cases, it took a whistleblower to prompt action on contaminated water. A 2013 investigative report produced by the Navy inspector general, obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request, reveals "shortfalls in the oversight and management of drinking water for Navy personnel stationed overseas—even in wealthy, developed countries." The report concludes that "not a single Navy overseas drinking water system meets U.S. compliance standards" or the Navy's own governing standards," according to POGO.

Re: Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

#26

Post by DoreenMichele »

caseymarquis wrote: post #21
drharby wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there were a medical device company capable or cheap blood test processing to disrupt and innovate this field:^)

Is that the actual constraint on the system though? Are existing technologies not up to the task? Or are we failing to build a system like this with existing technology even though it's possible. Would a robotic assembly line with existing medical testing technologies be possible?

A lot of the constraints are social ("political").

Historically, if you got VD -- back when it was called that -- they took the names of all your recent sex partners, tracked them down and notified them and treated them.

It was a system that was fairly effective.

Then AIDS came along and was associated with homosexuality and IV drug use. For understandable reasons, such people didn't want to name names. So the mantra became "we need better drugs."

That general line of reasoning seems to be a trend. We can't do x, y or z because reasons, and then we don't actually have an answer, basically. Hopefully, that will change.

Re: Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

#27

Post by cheesymuffin »

caseymarquis wrote: post #21
drharby wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there were a medical device company capable or cheap blood test processing to disrupt and innovate this field:^)

Is that the actual constraint on the system though? Are existing technologies not up to the task? Or are we failing to build a system like this with existing technology even though it's possible. Would a robotic assembly line with existing medical testing technologies be possible?

He's making a funny joke about Theranos.

That said most routine tests are pretty cheap. A stool culture with isolation where I am is $135 if you're paying cash at the lab. A lipid panel was well under $50. It's just that you'd need to see a gastroenterologist, pay for her services, hope that she gives you a referral, and see a new one if not. This drives the price in time and money.

Re: Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

#28

Post by denimnerd42 »

dade_ wrote: post #16
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get an undercounter reverse osmosis system for not much more than $100 that would save you a lot of trouble and expense. If you want to get really crazy hook up a deionizing filter after it to get <10 ppm water.

RO systems are excellent for water purification as well and certainly more convenient if you own your home. So I will restate, I don't understand why RO or distillation systems aren't far more common.

they are expensive, require an expensive plumber to install, potentially another source for leaks, and require regular cleaning. i'd rather just pay $10/month for gallons and gallons of bottled water.

Re: Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

#29

Post by dwighttk »

cheesymuffin wrote: post #27
caseymarquis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the actual constraint on the system though? Are existing technologies not up to the task? Or are we failing to build a system like this with existing technology even though it's possible. Would a robotic assembly line with existing medical testing technologies be possible?

He's making a funny joke about Theranos. That said most routine tests are pretty cheap. A stool culture with isolation where I am is $135 if you're paying cash at the lab. A lipid panel was well under $50. It's just that you'd need to see a gastroenterologist, pay for her services, hope that she gives you a referral, and see a new one if not. This drives the price in time and money.

A- that's still quite a bit of money B- The proposal was to get thousands (millions?) of volunteers to do these tests regularly and speculatively, price won't stay the same

Re: Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

#30

Post by dwighttk »

caseymarquis wrote: post #10

I wonder if there's a way to democratize inexpensive health testing and see these trends faster? Imagine a world where you're testing your blood/sweat/saliva/vitals daily and semi-anonymously sending the results to be analysed using statistical methods. A doctor can give you a one time use current diagnoses voucher to add into the system for serious diseases. The whole thing is voluntary. There's definitely some dyst…

have to weigh your benefits against the ballooning number of false positives and negatives.
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