Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's wrong with using a RDS instance running Postgres configured to be append-only and immutable?
It still leaves the possibility that the trusted third party operating that database (or Amazon) could modify the data. Blockchain would allow the same thing where that actor is malicious. Though the real world problems we're solving rarely lack a trusted third party. And even when they do, a public log a la certificate transparency logs seems to solve the issue about as well in my eyes.
You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work
311–320 of 415 posts
Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work
#312Can you transfer value across the world without Bitcoin? Yes, you can use banks, you can use wire payments, you can stuff gold in your butt and hope it doesn't show up in Airport scanners.
Can you verify that goods have been delivered without blockchain? Yes, you can insert to write-only dbs, you can hope that everyone in the supply chain is honest, etc.
There being an alternative to blockchain for a task doesn't mean blockchain isn't highly suitable for that task.
These same anti-Cloud-hype arguments were spewed throughout the 2000s, yet look how the world has changed because of it.
Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For example, you can have a perfectly legal contract, but the other party is in a corrupt foreign jurisdiction that would never find in your favor in the event of a breach. Then you can't contract with them because they have no incentive not to breach, without an alternative method of ensuring compliance that doesn't rely on their corrupt government. International trade has perfectly good mechanisms for dealing wit…
Your workarounds have potentially higher overhead. "Just factor in additional costs" is equivalent to destroying otherwise-productive low margin transactions. Even for higher margin transactions, higher overhead is no advantage. > Probably still illegal to do business with you if the government has outlawed work with specific sanctioned countries, etc. The whole point is the cases where it's not. Many banks and payme…
So your argument is that blockchain is only useful for international trade with tiny businesses?
> Even for higher margin transactions, higher overhead is no advantage.
Most people consider low corruption, high rule of law countries ideal places for business, with the higher overhead...
Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work
#314The land registry argument is the best example of this fallacy
>the regulatory authority can make its own record and thus rewrite yours, which means that blockchain doesn’t work.
No, the value is precisely the fact that it's the regulatory authority that forcibly changes ownership, and not you. Deed fraud [1] is a serious issue. Blockchain would protect against it completely: forging a signature or a will would be impossible. Rather than a document of dubious provenance, the will's hash would be stored along with the property record. Very likely in many cases of deed fraud the clerk changing the registry knows it's fraudulent and changes it for financial gain. That would become impossible also.
The only way to forcibly take the property would be a provide a cryptographically signed court order.
That's only for the security side of things. Tokenized real estate would make things that are currently very hard to do trivial, like using 1% of your home in country A as collateral for a rented car in country B. It's theoretically possible right now, but arranging that would require so much effort nobody does it. With a house record on the blockchain you would first tokenize it (transfer the ownership to a smart contract with tokens) and then transfer 1% of tokens to a car rental smart contract.
Same for every kind of possession. Own google stock and want to use it as collateral for X? Why not. Want to sell 1% of your rental property to an investor in another country? Easy, no paperwork needed.
Maybe it's never going to happen, but I think it's going to. The blockchain revolution would do to finance what internet did to information. Everything that's being done online was technically possible before it - theoretically, I could have written this exact post and physically mailed it to everyone who's ever going to read it.
[1] https://www.lifelock.com/learn-fraud-deed-fraud-losing-your-...
Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article has a non-numbered use case for "Money" (and one for "Smart contracts") in which the author claims that blockchains are useful for these purposes. So the article is sort of "lite" blockchain skepticism: it focuses on the interfaces between blockchain-stored data and the real world, such as the oracle problem (how do we know that data that people store on a chain is accurate and that they haven't lied abou…
I understand there is some theoretical use for blockchain as currency, but I have not really gotten good answers in regards to the current state of CryptoCurrency. Is crypto: money/currency (exchange for goods/services) a store of value (investment, hodl etc) a cool technology with no current useful application? If crypto is money, can I quickly, efficiently and without huge fees: Spend it at Amazon? My grocery store…
I've seen people do all of these things, but in every case it depended on cryptocurrency hobbyists happening to be on the other side of the transaction, or on informal exchanges (and the trend may be that it's getting less common, not more). So it seems like the answer is "maybe, but not reliably and routinely".
In this regard, cryptocurrencies might be more like commodities, collectibles, historic currencies, or foreign currencies (that are pretty much always still foreign, no matter where you travel).
> If crypto is a store of value can I trust it will hold value in any sane, non-Venezuelan way, over any reasonable time period?
Nope; in this regard, cryptocurrencies might be more like commodities or collectibles. "Not all plates go up in value; some go down." (National currencies can also be volatile, but most are dramatically more stable than cryptocurrencies.)
You could try to hold a stablecoin, but it's not clear that the backer will be able to maintain the peg (or even that the backer itself believes that it can maintain the peg!). Futures traders might be able to force the issue unexpectedly.
> If not, doesn't it default to a cool technology with no current useful application??
Most of the financial applications aren't currently routinely useful to most people. Although some people are optimistic that this is just a temporary bug or a matter of growing pains, I'm concerned that there are pretty strong scaling and sustainability problems with cryptocurrencies, so it might not be easy to fix this.
Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work
#316I've said this several times before on this site but will keep repeating it: there's exactly one use case where the blockchain is a superior (and, in fact, the only) solution: when you can't use contracts and the legal system to ensure trust between the parties. In other words, anything illegal. For any other conceivable use case, a database and a contract between parties are a superior solution. Edit: To clarify wha…
> In other words, anything illegal. Not exactly. It's anything for which the legal system is not effective. For example, you can have a perfectly legal contract, but the other party is in a corrupt foreign jurisdiction that would never find in your favor in the event of a breach. Then you can't contract with them because they have no incentive not to breach, without an alternative method of ensuring compliance that d…
Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you put 20 BTC into an exchange (in promise for 550 ETH or whatever), but the exchange goes bankrupt... you lose both your BTC and your ETH. You have to go through the courts to try to get your money back. That's actually solvable with atomic swaps [1]. They anable you to trustlessly exchange crypto currencies at an agreed on price. [1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_swap
Nifty trick! Unfortunately, it doesn't generalize to BTC / USD (or other fiat currency), which is probably the bigger exchange that most people use. ---------- The second issue is that BTC / ETH prices can change dramatically. Set your timer too long: and your opponent can use time to take advantage of the trade... only executing it when the BTC/ETH exchange floats towards their favor. Because BTC / ETH prices vary d…
The fact that it's impossible to implement trustless atomic swaps in USD is a USD problem, not a Bitcoin problem.
You asked how Bitcoin avoids litigation, you were given an example, and you dismissed it because it doesn't work on fiat. The reason Bitcoin had to be invented is precisely because these things aren't possible in fiat.
Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
SWIFT is a messaging system, not a settlement system. Its also far slower than blockchain, more complex, and more prone to error. I think around 6% of transactions just disappear.
I'd be interested to see actual numbers for transaction volume, latency, and reliability of SWIFT and blockchain in practical use cases. I worked on a payment system using the UK's Faster Payment Scheme a while ago. The SLA for latency is two seconds end-to-end, and is usually much faster than that, was simple enough for a gang of underpaid COBOL programmers to implement it successfully, and didn't have a mechanical…
lol, thanks for that.
Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
Moreover, blockchain isn't even allowed to be a satisfactory answer to all those problems, except when you're operating in an extra-legal environment. Because, if a court decides that a transaction was illegal and orders you to reverse it, answering, "But the blockchain. . . !" is a great way to land yourself in jail. Which, granted, plenty of anarchists and criminals have moral or practical reasons why they would ra…
In some respects this is particularly useful in a criminal setting due to the US legal systems doctrine of un-clean hands. You can't sue your drug dealer for failing to deliver as agreed, for instance. As such, the blockchain is effectively the stand-in as you can't get sued by your counterparty over illegal transactions anyways, and the judge won't order you to reverse them.
Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
>To be fair, I think most people who have given blockchain an honest 30 minutes of brainstorming aren't arguing for real world assets connected to a chain. The comment above says that the blockchain provides a satisfactory answer to enforcement of contracts. People really do seem to think that contracts made on the blockchain will magically enforce themselves in the real world.
Slightly ridiculous. Blockchains enforce the contract on the blockchain . The contracts don't, and can't, concern themselves with anything that is off the blockchain. Once the ether is in your account, the contract is complete.
As an example, fradulent fish is a huge problem in the fisheries and food industry. At every step of the supply chain, there is temptation to substitute expensive for cheap fish. Most Chilean sea bass you buy isn't actually Chilean sea bass, for example.
A lot of people are hyping blockchain as a solution to this serious problem, not appreciating the fact that the technology cannot actually tell different types of whitefish apart. I really would like a solid counterexample where blockchain actually would help, but I've never heard one.