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It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

nytimes.com

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Re: It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

#181

Post by dajohnson89 »

CPLX wrote: post #174
vonmoltke wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This argument is obvious nonsense. No, it isn't. > There was no outcry to prevent Amazon from using general programs that were open to all applicants, the problem was with the special extras they negotiated. People were outraged over the $3B. Less than 20% of that was special extras for Amazon. I don't think anyone would have been any less outraged if the number was $2.5B instead. Particularly since most of the arg…

> I don't think anyone would have been any less outraged if the number was $2.5B instead I don't think Coldplay is very good. We all have opinions. If they wanted to see what would have happened in that scenario they should have tried it. > Yeah, because nobody would have known. Look at all the people who assume other large companies in NYC don't get any tax breaks simply based on not hearing about said tax breaks. W…

Let's say that the special treatment for Amazon were eliminated. That is, only about ~%80 of the tax breaks were in effect. So now Amazon only receives ~$2.4 billion in tax breaks through the pre-existing incentive programs.

This is pure speculation, but I suspect the opponents wouldn't have altered their tone. At any rate -- I agree with you that Amazon shouldn't have received the special tax cut, and they didn't need it, and it was foolish of the State/city leadership to offer it.

I wanted AMZN to come here to NYC, but that whole charade they put on was a turn off. meh.

Re: It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

#182

Post by EnderMB »

phonon wrote: post #52
EnderMB wrote: post #38

I've been wanting to move to NYC for years. I love big cities, and since I was a kid I loved NYC. I went on holiday there a few years ago, and it only reinforced the idea of living there. In practice, finding tech jobs as a Brit has been horrendous. I've applied for countless roles, including roles at all FAANG companies, startups crying out for people with my experience, and established medium-sized companies hiring…

What kind of Visa sponsorship are you expecting? An L1 visa for transferring from an international company location to the US? That would rule out startups. An H-1B? That takes months, and has less than a 30% success rate. An O-1? Do you have documentation that would support "extra-ordinary" abilities? An E-2 visa is kinda neat though--have you thought of taking matters into your own hands? https://workpermit.com/imm…

Isn't the low success rate for H1B down to how it is used for consultancy roles, whereas large companies looking for full-time employees tend to have a very high success rate for "straightforward" applications? If not, then why do the likes of Google and other FAANG companies even bother interviewing people?

Re: It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

#183

Post by wan23 »

takeout wrote: post #106
TuringNYC wrote: post #11

I realize the anti-Amazon movement was a limited (but loud) group of individuals, but if their level of influence has lasting power, NYC tech is in trouble. Consider NYTimes' own article on the amazon exit. Half the people angry at Amazon were commenting that Amazon wasn't going to pay living wages (thinking that corporate HQ2 jobs are fulfillment jobs.) The other half were angry that Amazon was going to pay too much…

This is such a ridiculously bad take. NYers were against Amazon for the same reason Seattle residents were against Amazon taking over SLU. Nobody wanted 15k gentrifying jobs in LIC, half a mile from the Queensbridge Projects. Nobody wanted 15k transplant yuppies who don't want to contribute to culture at all. Nobody wanted Greenpoint, Astoria, and Williamsburg to turn (even more into) a gross similacrum of the Missio…

Note that by "nobody" you mean actually mean a majority of New Yorkers, according to polling. Only 35% of New Yorkers were opposed to the plan.

Re: It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

#184

Post by aetherson »

electricslpnsld wrote: post #176
aetherson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do the same in the bay area. People who are complaining about how unaffordable the bay area is on six figure salaries are either wanting to be much closer than one hour from hot spots, owning a house, having a kid, or some combination thereof.

I think the point is that in NYC, you don’t have to be over an hour from the hot spots if you aren’t making lots of money. It is totally possible to live in Manhattan on 30 grand a year (hell, I’ve done it). To do so in San Francisco or the Penninsula would be much harder.

The point of the grandparent was that you could live "less than 60 minutes" from work on over 100k a year.

I don't doubt that someone can live in Manhattan on less than 30k per year -- my wife worked in nonprofit when we met and I saw lots of people she worked with managing to live in salaries that were half of what people on HN regularly decry as being effective poverty for the area. However, when you do a simple search for apartments for rent in Manhattan, studios are routinely around $2k/month.

Re: It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

#185

Post by bobthepanda »

kissickas wrote: post #65
wefarrell wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians (AOC included) represent their current constituents. Not future potential constituents who might move into their district, but people who live there now. The key issue here is rising rent, and this is something Local politicians (AOC in particular) campaign on. A significant portion of people here would see their rents go up without seeing any additional benefits. How would you expect an elected official,…

I am not an all a fan of how Amazon went about this farcical "search" and haven't deeply researched the deal NYC gave them. That said, addressing rising rents by limiting the number of high-paying jobs in a city seems like one of the worst possible ways to approach the problem.

Nothing about the cancellation was a "limit". New York has not gone and closed up the gates. (That is illegal with a Constitution that guarantees free movement of labor.)

Amazon is welcome to expand without a deal, and in fact they still are, just not a brand new HQ2.

Re: It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

#186

Post by jacobr1 »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #181
CPLX wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think anyone would have been any less outraged if the number was $2.5B instead I don't think Coldplay is very good. We all have opinions. If they wanted to see what would have happened in that scenario they should have tried it. > Yeah, because nobody would have known. Look at all the people who assume other large companies in NYC don't get any tax breaks simply based on not hearing about said tax breaks. W…

Let's say that the special treatment for Amazon were eliminated. That is, only about ~%80 of the tax breaks were in effect. So now Amazon only receives ~$2.4 billion in tax breaks through the pre-existing incentive programs. This is pure speculation, but I suspect the opponents wouldn't have altered their tone. At any rate -- I agree with you that Amazon shouldn't have received the special tax cut, and they didn't ne…

I think plenty of people don't actually like the pre-existing incentive programs either. I certainly don't. And the mutual race to the bottom across jurisdictions that makes them a requirement to compete doesn't justify them either.

Re: It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

#187

Post by geofft »

gammateam wrote: post #48
nickelcitymario wrote: post #30

One of the biggest lessons I've taken from New York's approach is not to try and be the next Silicon Valley (as every community is trying to be). You can't beat the Valley at its own game. That's foolish. Instead, look to what industries your community has long been successful in, and develop the tech to disrupt those industries before the Valley does. NYC's example was to focus tech on advertising, finance, and medi…

Your whole post missed the important part about what can get funded and where. NYC is coming up, but the graveyard of quirky disruptors would still only be pursued in Silicon Valley. These non revenue generating companies acting as developer daycare need to be flipped from one portfolio to the next until you have a deal size big enough to matter, swap out the board and executive team and shop it to the public markets…

Apologies if the point was sarcasm, but you never know. It isn't obvious to me that this behavior is in any way helpful for success or even that it's the only way for success. Sudbury can probably do just fine for itself with another approach.

Re: It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

#188

Post by CPLX »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #181
CPLX wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think anyone would have been any less outraged if the number was $2.5B instead I don't think Coldplay is very good. We all have opinions. If they wanted to see what would have happened in that scenario they should have tried it. > Yeah, because nobody would have known. Look at all the people who assume other large companies in NYC don't get any tax breaks simply based on not hearing about said tax breaks. W…

Let's say that the special treatment for Amazon were eliminated. That is, only about ~%80 of the tax breaks were in effect. So now Amazon only receives ~$2.4 billion in tax breaks through the pre-existing incentive programs. This is pure speculation, but I suspect the opponents wouldn't have altered their tone. At any rate -- I agree with you that Amazon shouldn't have received the special tax cut, and they didn't ne…

> This is pure speculation, but I suspect the opponents wouldn't have altered their tone.

There’s literally no evidence of this. Dozens of companies, including evil empires like Google and Goldman Sachs, have taken advantage of Empire State grants and EDC programs and whatever else without all that much drama.

Amazon literally shot themselves in the face with their arrogant, entitled attitude here. Consider placing the blame where it belongs.

Re: It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

#189

Post by beager »

aetherson wrote: post #40
peruvian wrote: post #14

One of the reasons for this is that NYC is very livable with a tech salary. I’ve never been in the Bay Area, but here you can make just above $100k and live comfortably with a You won’t be able to buy a house and having a kid without a spouse with a similar salary may be tough, but for a single person it lets you enjoy the city and actually be able to save money.

You can do the same in the bay area. People who are complaining about how unaffordable the bay area is on six figure salaries are either wanting to be much closer than one hour from hot spots, owning a house, having a kid, or some combination thereof.

If not one of those three things are indepdently attainable on a six figure salary, then yes, the Bay Area is massively unaffordable.

Re: It Started With a Jolt: How New York Became a Tech Town

#190

Post by gammateam »

pastor_elm wrote: post #130
gammateam wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your whole post missed the important part about what can get funded and where. NYC is coming up, but the graveyard of quirky disruptors would still only be pursued in Silicon Valley. These non revenue generating companies acting as developer daycare need to be flipped from one portfolio to the next until you have a deal size big enough to matter, swap out the board and executive team and shop it to the public markets…

Huh? Tell that to companies like Blue Apron, Etsy, and We Work which are about as destined for failure as any Silicon Valley daycare company.

True, lets do more of it
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