Live data from Hacker News

You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

blog.smartdec.net

91–100 of 415 posts

Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

#91
post #11

9. Currency.

has worked for literally millennia without it.

I dislike this reasoning, lots of things worked for millennia but that doesn't mean the modern version is somehow useless. Phone networks? Communication has worked for literally millennia without it.

Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

#92

I've said this several times before on this site but will keep repeating it: there's exactly one use case where the blockchain is a superior (and, in fact, the only) solution: when you can't use contracts and the legal system to ensure trust between the parties. In other words, anything illegal. For any other conceivable use case, a database and a contract between parties are a superior solution. Edit: To clarify wha…

First of all, no. Global, trustless coordination is a hard problem and is not necessarily illegal. Second, legality is subjective around the world. It is currently illegal in the US to gamble online, for some reason, even though casinos and lotteries are a thing. It is illegal in many countries to transfer a certain amount of money out of the country, for some reason. Certain sexualities are illegal in quite a few co…

[deleted]

Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

#93

I've said this several times before on this site but will keep repeating it: there's exactly one use case where the blockchain is a superior (and, in fact, the only) solution: when you can't use contracts and the legal system to ensure trust between the parties. In other words, anything illegal. For any other conceivable use case, a database and a contract between parties are a superior solution. Edit: To clarify wha…

That's exactly what I've been writing under every blockchain thread on HN for the last two years: the only real need that blockchain solves is buying drugs. It hasn't taken over US and Europe yet (I presume because of progress by the legalization movement), but in Russia and CIS, there are no drug dealers that you meet anymore: anything you buy, you buy anonymously, through Tor and Bitcoin, without ever meeting any real person.

That's the only industry blockhain could disrupt, and it completely disrupted it. (I'm not sure about money laundering as I've never really know much about it).

Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

#94
post #3

I hate the blockchain hype. I think most uses can be solved by a simple database hosted by a trusted authority. Yet, just reading the first two samples, I already disagree with them. Re the 1st one: it's true only if the transporter doesn't risk anything if the sensor is tampered with. As soon as you introduce strong fines and/or consequences if a validating authority randomly checks your goods and discover some tamp…

What if the trusted authority is the Chinese government? would you still keep your same opinion?

At the core of it, it is a transfer of power from larger organizations to the people.

Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I think most people who have given blockchain an honest 30 minutes of brainstorming aren't arguing for real world assets connected to a chain. I would argue that there is potentially a use case when it comes to things that can be completely represented digitally e.g. money.

That I agree with. I've seen some pretty interesting proposals for on-chain games. But it still adds new problems. Electricity use, the irrecoverability of data/auth if you lose a key, the inability to erase problematic data.

I'm not sure I'd necessarily call those problems - it's a weird definition I know, but perhaps tradeoffs?

1. On Electricity - It needs to be expensive to try to cheat or steal from the system. Currently with gold you would need to hire a private army to steal from and break into vaults - that's so expensive and crazy that I don't think most people are willing to undertake that risk. Currently I think electricity is the best way to make digital native things expensive. I'm not sold on anything else yet (definitely open to new solutions, but I'm not convinced think PoS is a viable one).

2-3. I think this is an interesting tradeoff. The way I look at it you pick 1 of 2. Either you trust someone or some people to return lost funds/remove "problematic" data or you trust the system in which case those things can never be recovered/removed.

I think calling those "problems" might be premature as they could actually be "benefits" depending on how you look at them.

Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

#96

I've said this several times before on this site but will keep repeating it: there's exactly one use case where the blockchain is a superior (and, in fact, the only) solution: when you can't use contracts and the legal system to ensure trust between the parties. In other words, anything illegal. For any other conceivable use case, a database and a contract between parties are a superior solution. Edit: To clarify wha…

Potentially legit use-case: electronic voting. In this scenario, you need to offer a number of guarantees. Chiefly:

1. Is my vote anonymous? (If not perfectly, owing to low level timestamps or transaction ids that can get cross-referenced with other data sources, at least for all practical intents?)

2. Can I be sure my vote got tallied the way I voted?

3. If I'd like to verify the result, is there a tamper-proof electronic paper trail that I can use to verify the result?

It's a surprisingly hard problem in practice, and to the best my knowledge the most promising venue to guarantee 2 and 3 without compromising 1 might be a blockchain-like distributed ledger. (You can solve 2 and 3 by using a git-like hash tree and letting the voter know their commit hash. But in doing so you're basically dropping 1 and inviting vote selling.)

Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you mean a system could exist to lower costs for some parties?

While at the same time increasing the collective cost for everybody else? (ie: wasting energy).

Is it wasting though? Do you consider vaults a waste? Do you consider 2-3% CC fees a waste?

We already have costs built into the current system (e.g. cc fees to make up for fraud, security systems around protecting gold + cash). Electricity is just the cost of that specific system - I think calling it a waste is not necessarily justified.

Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

#98
post #44

I've said this several times before on this site but will keep repeating it: there's exactly one use case where the blockchain is a superior (and, in fact, the only) solution: when you can't use contracts and the legal system to ensure trust between the parties. In other words, anything illegal. For any other conceivable use case, a database and a contract between parties are a superior solution. Edit: To clarify wha…

Really? You (seriously plan to resort to) go(ing) to court over every contractual dispute? Even $5? HN Bandwagon, Monday: "Don't you understand that courts exist to make it so no one can break a contract without penalty?" HN Bandwagon, Tuesday: "Lol don't go to court over $5, that's stupid."

Mind elaborating a little more on this use case?

Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

#99

I've said this several times before on this site but will keep repeating it: there's exactly one use case where the blockchain is a superior (and, in fact, the only) solution: when you can't use contracts and the legal system to ensure trust between the parties. In other words, anything illegal. For any other conceivable use case, a database and a contract between parties are a superior solution. Edit: To clarify wha…

> a database and a contract between parties are a superior solution.

Do you believe that this is a permanent state, or a temporary one? Is there a potential blockchain-like thing that could exist which would be better than a database and a contract?

Because to me, the current system leaves room for improvement:

- resolving conflicts across jurisdictions is extremely expensive

- resolving conflicts even within one jurisdiction is more expensive than many transactions are worth

Current blockchains are expensive and slow, but I think that we will see improvements over time which will eventually make blockchains (or something blockchain-like) look like appealing solutions.

Re: You Do Not Need Blockchain: Popular Use Cases and Why They Do Not Work

#100
post #51
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You (seriously plan to resort to) go(ing) to court over every contractual dispute? Even $5? HN Bandwagon, Monday: "Don't you understand that courts exist to make it so no one can break a contract without penalty?" HN Bandwagon, Tuesday: "Lol don't go to court over $5, that's stupid."

Credit card companies have a good system for handling $5 disputes. They write them off.

Not quite, they make the merchant write it off. And if someone brings too many disputes, they investigate.

(The small fraud problem is one reason I think micro payments can't happen: you can't investigate sub-cent fraud, but if someone can automate it they can steal a lot.)

Post reply on HN