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Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

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Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#151
post #123
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish DNT was honoured, but it's as good as a "do not commit crime" sign.

DNT is practically defunct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track#History In January 2019 W3C Tracking Protection Working Group concluded work on Do Not Track standard citing "insufficient deployment of these extensions" and lack of "indications of planned support among user agents, third parties, and the ecosystem at large." In February 2019 Apple Safari 12.1 was released without support for DNT to avoid it bei…

You can tell how bad the lack of support / teeth is when people start using the flag to not track them as an extra way of tracking people. That's extremely telling... but sadly not unexpected by many of us.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#152
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You send tracking events to your analytics/tracking partner from your backend instead of from the browser and they combine the cookie ids.

I thought the whole purpose of using third party JavaScript and third party cookies in advertising is that the advertisers don't trust the host backends. What's to stop a site operator from "boosting" the stats in order to make more money?

Useful for people using Facebook pixel, Google Ads pixel. They have no incentive to lie (they aren't making money out Facebook or Google), it's just about making sure their users are being tracked after clicking an ad on Instagram, etc.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#153
post #116

One thing mentioned on the responses that might be really concerning is the fact that this will mean that for a lot of analytics it will look like firefox usage is close to zero. No usage data, devs caring less about firefox, users having more problems when using firefox, less users using firefox, less users having 3rd party trackers blocked, chrome monopoly growing.

In my experience as a long-term Firefox user, developers already don't care about Firefox. It's amazing how many websites I visit that break or look awful until I switch to Chromium.

Interesting, I've been using Firefox for years and can't remember the last time I've experienced a site that didn't perform as expected.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#154
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DNT is pretty much dead because no one ever really honored it.

And that is exactly why I would like it to not be forced on (or off). I want my browser to report no DNT setting at all, to reduce my fingerprinting profile.

https://panopticlick.eff.org/ reports that 1 in 1.67 browsers send the DNT header, so the best option fingerprinting-wise might be to leave it on, at least information-wise.

Of course, that ratio will likely change when Safari drops support for DNT entirely. See discussion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19101156

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And users who report having issues with Firefox will be told to use Chrome (that is what's already happening)

And we will shout back : ) I'm already on it as might be seen here. Feel free to complain loud and clear if it doesn't work in FF. Make it clear that FF support isn't optional. Also on my to do list: complain even more, including to relevant authorities about Googles abuse of market position to push their browser. Feel free to join me here as well. (And to be sure: feel free to complain when supposedly mainstream sit…

This is why I use FF for development(and all other browsing). I get firefox support by default on all my work.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Figure out something better. There is no magical solution. The alternative is some kind of payment system. And many people can't afford paying for each site they visit, so it would limit people's access to the net if there were paywalls everywhere. Also, if sites can't show ads and not enough people subscribes then many sites will close which would lead to further concentration of the web. Small players would be el…

If people can't afford paying, then it follows that they can't afford being advertised at in order to stimulate their consumption beyond what they actually need. If the answer to that is that people are of course in their right to ignore advertisements (as if that is possible), then by extension blocking them outright is morally defensible as well, and we are right back to where we are now. Either that, or on-line ad…

> If people can't afford paying, then it follows that they can't afford being advertised

You know the answer to that. People can pay with their data, their interests. And if you put the question to people if they want a free web which sells their data or pay for every site then most people will choose the first.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#157
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox/Mozilla is not as reliant on Google anymore as it once was, having diversified which search engine gets set in which area. There would also still be a reason for google to be the default search engine even in a browser that blocks third party trackers by default, namely the original reason of getting users to use your search engine. So I don't see a problem here and I doubt Google would or could force Mozilla…

Mozilla released the extension "Facebook Container", which is great, but that's only one of the FANG companies notorious for invading privacy. Where is the "Google Container" extension from Mozilla? There exists such an extension but it's by a third party, not by Mozilla. It would be nice to see it from Mozilla since I trust them more than I trust some random extension developer; I can feel confident in recommending…

Putting Facebook in a box is easier for many people because they have fewer things that are connected to their Facebook. Any such things break with containerisation. Firefox spells that out, but people will be surprised anyway.

Let's give a real world example. I use Facebook container. I also have YouTube premium. So, normally I don't see YouTube adverts because I'm logged into my account with Premium.

But inside the Facebook container, I am an anonymous YouTube user, with no Premium account. So if a user embeds a YouTube video, it has adverts.

Now, if I used the Google Container, all YouTube videos, other than on YouTube itself, would be anonymous and so have adverts.

There's a lot more integration like this for Google than Facebook, and so the experience with containers is worse for Google than Facebook.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and they combine the cookie ids. And how do they do that? The "advantage" of third-party tracking is that a cookie set by the analytics service on site A gets sent back when the user goes to site B and C and D (etc). Without that, they have to somehow figure out that user 34 on site A is the same as user 95 on site B. That's often possible, but much less reliable.

Browser fingerprinting? How do you defeat that? If people want to track... they will track.

Throw away your browser and renounce all web technologies made after November of 1995.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#160
post #104
post #8

I think this is a bad idea. Even though I personally block 3rd party trackers by default, breaking the web by default will cause problems. Also, ad blocking will start being a problem when enough people start doing it. I still remember the days of no websites yelling at you for blocking their ads. Things are going to get much worse.

It's worth noting that historically that RFC 2109 and RFC 2965 specified that user agents should respect the user's privacy and not allow cross-server cookies. Since browsers have flat out ignored this recommendation since the beginning this never meant anything, and newer RFCs explicitly allow the default. But if we had been a little more prescient this mess could have been avoided. It's also worth noting that anecd…

It's not for lack of prescience. Lou Montulli (the guy who created cookies) realized that third-party cookies were being used for tracking and advertising early on and made the decision to not to break them. I think his reasoning [1] has stood up well too.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20170421064522/http://www.montul...

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