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Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

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Re: Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"market for lemons" is a great term, just in case people aren't aware of it. I was introduced to it by this good piece on Medium: https://medium.com/@thogge/one-mental-model-to-rule-them-all... (I'd appreciate if anyone posted links they like better). I'm not sure I understand it applying in this case. Bad candidates are always looking for a job, but good candidates rarely need to look for a job. (So, job applicants…

I think it dates back to Joel, here's another good take on it: https://danluu.com/hiring-lemons/

From the article you linked, it looks like the term dates to George Akerlof's paper, The Market for "Lemons": Quality Uncertainty and the Market Mechanism (Nobel prize winning 1970 paper).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

Re: Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

#52

I'll reiterate a desire for someone to actually make an OkCupid for Hiring. Both sides answer questions and get matched. (If this exists please let me know)

We tried at Intern Avenue, hammered it for 5 years. IA was a startup which created a self-service platform to find an ideal early-stage talents (interns and graduates) for businesses, using machine-learning. We had a good success and high retention rate at smaller size businesses, especially in non-STEM sectors, such as marketeers or journalists. We made many mistakes, but the biggest one was to assume that the recru…

Could you say more? (If there's a post-mortem post on this I'd love to read it.)

When I'm in a lead role or participate in hiring I'm definitely interested in the hiring process. I'm not sure how setting up a job profile (i.e. answering qualitative questions about what I value, what the team values, etc) would be much more work than writing the job description in the first place. I suspect I'm not fully understanding your statement though.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"market for lemons" is a great term, just in case people aren't aware of it. I was introduced to it by this good piece on Medium: https://medium.com/@thogge/one-mental-model-to-rule-them-all... (I'd appreciate if anyone posted links they like better). I'm not sure I understand it applying in this case. Bad candidates are always looking for a job, but good candidates rarely need to look for a job. (So, job applicants…

I think it dates back to Joel, here's another good take on it: https://danluu.com/hiring-lemons/

Ah. Dan Luu disagrees with Joel's "great devs are never on the market" (based on his experience). The article is great. Although, I'm not sure how useful the advice of "Hiring great employees is easy. Want better employees? Pay more" is. -- I'm also curious about what the "can't find a good team?" part would be (other than "don't ask for such a high salary").

Re: Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

#54
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comp.fyi has over 5k self-reported salaries. Any user generated content will always have slight inaccuracy / variation though we have enough data points to generate a fairly good median figure. You can take a look at the individual submissions on the site and decide for yourself but we've heard from several folks that the salaries are more accurate than other sites.

Another issue is that location, even 60 miles, can affect salary enormously. Go even to some of the suburbs of London and it's a lot less then inside London. San Francisco Bay Area is a huge anomaly with in California. Berlin commands lowersalaries done the rest of Germany. And to get enough data across different sectors which pay differently and roles which are not quite the same as described elsewhere but titled si…

We currently don't have a good story around location. Most of the salaries are in the Bay Area / Seattle. We're working on improving this!!

Re: Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

#55
I’m in recruiting, have been for a while. I’ve also been part of the team that’s built one of these newer solutions that you may have heard of, so I have some perspective.

A lot of different products that you’ll see, that focus attention on sourcing candidates (or, solving “top of funnel” problems), are likely going to run into some of the same walls we always have. As appealing as these platforms might be, that offer a slightly more modern way of matching skills to jobs, at the end of the day they will still struggle to get things much better, for a couple of reasons:

1) We’re dealing with a finite pool of candidates, and a fairly limited pool of really qualified candidates (of course, this is subjective based on your company). So, all the awesome skills matching AI/Machine Learning, etc. in the world, isn’t going to create more people - you’ll likely still end up short. 2) Often, the very best candidates are well employed, or move from one job to another without ever hitting the open market, because they are well known and get recruited among their network. So, these platforms will often have a larger representation of less experience job seekers.

With all that said, we have had success with Hired! I think they have a high quality reputation with candidates and recruiters, and that goes a long way. Another product we’ve liked is Drafted - this looks at your employee’s networks, and then suggests people to your employees that they can refer. It’s just a nudge to encourage a referral - it’s been good.

I think that really, the most gains can come further into the process. Applying to a job (as candidate) and reviewing an application (as company) is fairly relatively easy and cheap (i.e. neither party has invested much time or attention). As you get further in the recruiting process, you’re investing more of yourself (as is the company), so it’s more important to get it right. Once you do find candidates that seem to be a strong potential fit, it’s even more crucial that the rest of the process is transparent, grounded in logic, and actually assures the the right match is being made.

We’ve chose to focus on designing a better technical interview at Karat, because of this. We do first round technical screens on behalf of companies, and we’ve built the infrastructure to support a more fair and data-driven process. The companies we work with realize that getting interviewing right takes a lot of time - and then having your engineers do all first rounds (on top of final rounds), also takes a lot of time. So, we build all the interview content in house, and then as candidates go from Karat, to the final round interviews at these companies, we track what happens closely - this allows us to more accurately assess who is likely to be a good fit in final rounds, and then we just continue calibrating that fit over time.

Why we think we’re “fixing” recruiting, is because we see the incredible amount of time lost, and poor matches made, when interviewing is done more arbitrarily, or in an ad hoc manner. By just applying consistent infrastructure, it cleans up a lot of things, and makes the process less painful for all involved. Finally, because our full focus is interviewing - we’re able to do things like offer interviews 24/7, give you the chance to redo your interview if the first one sucked, and invest in a ton of training for interviewers to provide a really great experience.

So - that's my thought - it's tough to fix a lot of these things through sourcing - the parts of the process where you’re developing a deeper relationship and investing more time are crucial to get right.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

#56
I lead one of the companies in this space and it always makes me smile when I see "solving recruiting through machine learning" :D

I think we can all honestly agree that recruiting/hiring will never be "solved", it will always be a laborious task if it's done right and that's simply because we're dealing with people, not data. No algorithm should ever direct your decisions about a human being, we're all too wildly unpredictable for that. No algorithm would have ever given Steve Jobs or Elon Musk a shot.

Sure, we can use tech to help us improve filtering, sourcing, automating, interviewing...to an extent.

At X-Team (my company), we've chosen to not only focus on using tech to improve all of those to help us be more efficient, but I think most importantly we've focused on the one thing no one really talks about: what happens after the hire.

Anyone can start one of these companies, make some decent tech to filter applicants, and then hand off a person to a company for a fee. Easy.

But providing people that will actually stick around after the handoff? Another beast entirely. We're providing X-Teamers, not people spit out of an algorithm on top of a database.

We're providing people who all share the same "keep moving forward" attitude, beliefs, values, people who are all motivated and rallied behind the same energy thanks to our engaging and energizing community experience (x-team.com/join for more on that). When your talent pool is unified and energized, you've changed the game because now it's not just about providing people quickly and accurately, it's about providing consistency among every hire, and you can only achieve that by continuing to invest in those people after the hire.

One example is how we give them all $2,500/year to spend on their passions and growth. TripleByte chucks them out the door and wishes them luck. We hang on to them, we send them around the world to our hackerhouse (x-outpost.com), we challenge them and motivate them (https://youtu.be/Th80vOGFvUE), we become their support arm that unifies them around meaning and energy.

As one client said: "I feel like X-Team shows a lot of love and in turn that gets brought back to our company. I think that they create this ecosystem of growth for the developers that as a company we can't really do."

So we think shaking up hiring isn't just about creating tech that increases efficiency. It's also about providing consistency, ensuring you can get the same level of quality every time you turn on the hiring machine and need a new hire; and since humans aren't machines, that's the biggest challenge of them all and the one we want to keep tackling. :)

Re: Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

#57
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it dates back to Joel, here's another good take on it: https://danluu.com/hiring-lemons/

From the article you linked, it looks like the term dates to George Akerlof's paper, The Market for "Lemons": Quality Uncertainty and the Market Mechanism (Nobel prize winning 1970 paper). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

The term does, but not it's application to software hiring...

Re: Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

#58

I'll reiterate a desire for someone to actually make an OkCupid for Hiring. Both sides answer questions and get matched. (If this exists please let me know)

I work for a company that is trying to change how hiring and recruiting is done in the legal industry (https://hireanesquire.com/), and we are always comparing ourselves to OkCupid in terms of how we should be matching our candidates to our jobs. This analogy holds true. In fact, we recently launched our fit score assessment system which essentially boils down to (you guessed it) both sides answering questions.

Dating websites are actually really good at matching people, and recruiters can learn a lot from them.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

#59
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article you linked, it looks like the term dates to George Akerlof's paper, The Market for "Lemons": Quality Uncertainty and the Market Mechanism (Nobel prize winning 1970 paper). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

The term does, but not it's application to software hiring...

I misread your pronoun. Thanks for clarifying!

Re: Ask HN: Which companies are improving recruiting?

#60
I work for a company in the legal recruiting industry (https://hireanesquire.com/) and we've been trying to tackle some of the biggest issues with recruiting -- albeit specifically for the legal industry.

At the end of the day, our goal is to create successful job placements. We've learned that there is surprisingly a lot of science in I/O psychology behind predicting job performance based on personality traits [0]. We've been developing an assessment system with a behavioral psychologist to measure personality traits that could predict a successful job outcome. To be honest, I'm surprised this hasn't caught on with the recruiting industry already. It's been working out well for us and I would expect to see more of this across different industries in the future.

[0] http://jwalkonline.org/docs/Grad%20Classes/Fall%2007/Org%20P...

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