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Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

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Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#21

Post by MaulingMonkey »

amelius wrote: post #9

> Some people think that "the cloud" means that the instruction set doesn't matter. Develop at home, deploy in the cloud. That's bullshit. If you develop on x86, then you're going to want to deploy on x86, because you'll be able to run what you test "at home" (and by "at home" I don't mean literally in your home, but in your work environment). But developers can ssh to the cloud, and develop there, right?

Not without an internet connection, not in an isolated testing environment, not without jumping through cloud specific hoops to setup accounts, not without installing your initial ssh keys, not without getting IT signoff for access and/or to spin up more cloud resources with the related charges, not without extra IDE configuration (if even possible, depending on the cloud) or resorting to raw gdb, ...

When I want to test C++ stuff on ARM, I connect an android device, because that's somehow less painful.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#22

Post by MaulingMonkey »

oblio wrote: post #18
amelius wrote: post #9

> Some people think that "the cloud" means that the instruction set doesn't matter. Develop at home, deploy in the cloud. That's bullshit. If you develop on x86, then you're going to want to deploy on x86, because you'll be able to run what you test "at home" (and by "at home" I don't mean literally in your home, but in your work environment). But developers can ssh to the cloud, and develop there, right?

And he's wrong. In the enterprise, the vast majority of devs are on Windows, for Java for example. That doesn't mean that their deployment target is Windows, most of the time it's Linux. And the development differences, chance of bugs, performance profiles are way different between OSes than they are between CPU architectures.

I can install a reasonably performing x86 Linux VM on an x86 Windows host. If the same can be said for an ARM VM on an x86 host, please share how, I'd love to learn that trick.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#25

Post by deng »

He is right. I'm still waiting for that ARM-based laptop with awesome battery life, which can run a proper OS with good speed and hence is not just a toy. Apple switching to ARM won't make much difference since I gather it will only run OSX, which will probably be pretty much iOS at that time. Yes, you will probably be able to run Linux on that thing, but almost nobody will actually do it because it makes much more sense to buy a cheaper x86-based machine instead. Yes, there are ARM-based laptops running Windows, and they are a joke. For instance, c't just tested the Lenovo Yoga C630 WOS, and it's a disaster, plain and simple.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#27

Post by Spooky23 »

enragedcacti wrote: post #10

I disagree with Linus for a couple of reasons. The main one being that not every service in a product needs to be running ARM for it to be useful. There is nothing preventing heterogenous solutions in the cloud and if third parties vet their code on ARM then deploying your DBMS on ARM and your web server on x86 (or whatever services most of your business logic is in) is totally valid for cost or performance reasons.…

Apple hasn’t touched the Unix parts of MacOS in a long time. I’d assume whatever they ship will be some sort of hybrid that may not make developers happy.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#30

Post by rythie »

enragedcacti wrote: post #10

I disagree with Linus for a couple of reasons. The main one being that not every service in a product needs to be running ARM for it to be useful. There is nothing preventing heterogenous solutions in the cloud and if third parties vet their code on ARM then deploying your DBMS on ARM and your web server on x86 (or whatever services most of your business logic is in) is totally valid for cost or performance reasons.…

Your second point is just re-enforcing what he said. If MacBooks move ARM, they will have solved developer piece. Since so many developers use Apple stuff, ARM will be native and servers would follow.

In the 90s you could see a shift from people having a SPARC workstation in their office for service development, to just using a x86 PC with Linux or Windows on. Then after while developing for Linux/x86 and deploying to Solaris/SPARC made little sense, so you just put it on Linux/x86 in the end. The thing is maybe 95% of things just work and you spend all your time sorting the other 5%.

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