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Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

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Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#31

Post by nextos »

traderjane wrote: post #19

Firefox's Container's approach has been quite interesting to use, but if a suggestion could get out to the Firefox team, I would advise improved streamlining of workflow for the extension, including with sync and returning browser setup, and for organizing and setting up new containers (configuring them to always open for a domain, putting them in folders).

The Temporary Containers addon is a great way to use containers everywhere, but I agree a bit of streamlining from upstream to standardize things would be even better.

With Temporary Containers, you can easily run one new container per tab. Or one new container per domain or even subdomain within the same tab. Although the latter option will break many sites and the go back button.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#32

Post by wbxrs »

zaarn wrote: post #29
wbxrs wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By default, unless the user has changed his settings, if a website tells a browser to load something, the browser should do so.

What if the website told the browser to load malware? Browsers in the modern web need to defend the user, not execute arbitrary instructions from random websites that nobody cares about.

A website cannot tell a browser to "load malware", unless we're talking about a exploit, which should be patched.

(Please don't say "if I send you a malformed png file you have to execute the exploit, otherwise your argument breaks down".)

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#33

Post by ionised »

wbxrs wrote: post #8

I think this is a bad idea. Even though I personally block 3rd party trackers by default, breaking the web by default will cause problems. Also, ad blocking will start being a problem when enough people start doing it. I still remember the days of no websites yelling at you for blocking their ads. Things are going to get much worse.

but it's not breaking the web, it's fixing it.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#34

Post by darkpuma »

rbinv wrote: post #15

Companies have begun switching tracking tech to first-party cookies (where possible) since Apple's introduction of "Intelligent Tracking Protection," so Mozilla's similar move probably won't have that much of an impact either. Apple has responded with ITP 2.1, though, limiting _all_ (persistent) cookie lifetime to 7 days, although these could probably be accurately re-issued/kept alive in my opinion: https://webkit.o…

I, and probably many other users, have begun blocking all first-party cookies by default. I only permit it on sites I sign into and want to remember me, which are very few.

If Mozilla wants to make a real difference, they'd study uMatrix and figure out how to create UX that would give that degree of flexibility and power to non-technical users.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#35

Post by PeterisP »

wbxrs wrote: post #24
happyvalley wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think this is a bad idea. Even though I personally block 3rd party trackers by default, breaking the web by default will cause problems. How is this “breaking the web”? Honest question, I would not subscribe to that sentiment, but am interested in other points of view.

By default, unless the user has changed his settings, if a website tells a browser to load something, the browser should do so.

If there are some conflicts of interest between the user and the website, the browser (chosen by the user and put on user's device by the user) should be on the user's side, and work with them to ensure that the interests of the user are met - at the expense of website "desires". A browser is not a platform for websites to run on; a browser is a tool for the user to interpret the content provided by websites according to the user's wishes.

A prime example of "if a website tells a browser to load something" is popup windows - if a website tells a browser to open a dozen popups and popunders, then no, the browser should not do so. Earlier browsers did what the websites told them to do, and that was a horrible thing, so that's been changed.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#36

Post by darkpuma »

traderjane wrote: post #19

Firefox's Container's approach has been quite interesting to use, but if a suggestion could get out to the Firefox team, I would advise improved streamlining of workflow for the extension, including with sync and returning browser setup, and for organizing and setting up new containers (configuring them to always open for a domain, putting them in folders).

Yeah the UX of Multi-Account Containers is awful. The number of steps the user is required to follow to make a website always open in a particular container is absurd.

    1) Create a new container 
    2) Open a new tab with that container
    3) Open the website in that container
    4) Check "Always open in [container name]"
    5) Open a new tab and load that page again.
    6) Click "Remember my decision"
    7) Click "Open in [container name] Container"
I don't mean to throw shade, I'm sure whoever came up with this had good intentions, but it needs work. (Also, why a limit of 8 colors and 12 icons? Why not an arbitrary number of colors and user definable icons?)

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#37

Post by mtgx »

traderjane wrote: post #19

Firefox's Container's approach has been quite interesting to use, but if a suggestion could get out to the Firefox team, I would advise improved streamlining of workflow for the extension, including with sync and returning browser setup, and for organizing and setting up new containers (configuring them to always open for a domain, putting them in folders).

Agreed. Containers feels a little unfinished right now. Sync is a must and the UX needs to be improved a little so it's easier to start them up and organize them. There should probably be an opt-in option to always ask you into which container you want new websites you visit, too. This way I wouldn't have to change it after the fact or make the effort to set-up a container before I think about visiting the site.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#38

Post by darkpuma »

onli wrote: post #4
claudiojulio wrote: post #2

Does this mean that analytics will also be blocked? If it is true it will be a shot in the foot, because Google pays a lot of money to Mozilla. Translated automatically.

Firefox/Mozilla is not as reliant on Google anymore as it once was, having diversified which search engine gets set in which area. There would also still be a reason for google to be the default search engine even in a browser that blocks third party trackers by default, namely the original reason of getting users to use your search engine. So I don't see a problem here and I doubt Google would or could force Mozilla…

Mozilla released the extension "Facebook Container", which is great, but that's only one of the FANG companies notorious for invading privacy. Where is the "Google Container" extension from Mozilla? There exists such an extension but it's by a third party, not by Mozilla. It would be nice to see it from Mozilla since I trust them more than I trust some random extension developer; I can feel confident in recommending Facebook Container to people but I'd have to keep up on the reputation and ownership of the Google Container extension to feel good about recommending it to others.

I guess what I'm saying is it would be nice for Mozilla to be a bit more bold in demonstrating this independence from Google. It seems to me they still fear/respect Google more than Facebook.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-cont...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/google-contai...

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#39

Post by sjagoe »

wbxrs wrote: post #24
happyvalley wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think this is a bad idea. Even though I personally block 3rd party trackers by default, breaking the web by default will cause problems. How is this “breaking the web”? Honest question, I would not subscribe to that sentiment, but am interested in other points of view.

By default, unless the user has changed his settings, if a website tells a browser to load something, the browser should do so.

I disagree. I think by default the browser should protect the user, and protect the user's privacy. The browser is an agent of the user, not an agent of the websites the user visits.

Edit: PeterisP says it much better in a sibling comment.

Re: Firefox to Block All 3rd Party Trackers by Default

#40

Post by stunt »

fxfan wrote: post #26
traderjane wrote: post #19

Firefox's Container's approach has been quite interesting to use, but if a suggestion could get out to the Firefox team, I would advise improved streamlining of workflow for the extension, including with sync and returning browser setup, and for organizing and setting up new containers (configuring them to always open for a domain, putting them in folders).

Containers have some great add-ons built around them, have you taken a look? I agree with your point completely though- needs to be a front and center feature. I'd like to add something else- firefox should ship a 'power user' edition. Comes pre-installed with uBlock origin/uMatrix/temporary containers/sidebar tabs/greasemonkey/Tridactyl (sorry emacs users ;)

> firefox should ship a 'power user' edition

If you have Firefox-Sync enabled. You will get all your extensions anyway. so it is a one time setup for all those extensions that you need.

First time hearing Tridactyl! I'm using Vimium. Does it have any advantage over Vimium?

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