Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees

#201

Post by BurningFrog » Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 5:40 AM UTC

my_username_is_ wrote: post #50

ergothus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> collective employee action can be used to force an employer to stop exploitative behaviors? I'm all for balancing the employer employee interaction, but is this truly something that works for most industries? Google cares about it's reputation among potential tech employees. Other areas (say, Amazon warehouses) probably have a lot less trouble finding people desperate for work and willing to put up with crap becaus…

From what I understand, Amazon actually has trouble recruiting and retaining enough warehouse workers (especially during peak seasons). This is evident by them having a starting wage ($15/hr) that is more than double the minimum wage in many parts of the country

I guess we mean different things with "trouble".

Re: Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees

#202

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 5:40 AM UTC

dmitrygr wrote: post #187

ChuckMcM wrote: post #10

Wow, you mean collective employee action can be used to force an employer to stop exploitative behaviors? Who knew? :-) I'm really glad to hear that Google made this step, now if they would drop the overly expansive ownership claim in their employment agreement and the right to surveillance on personal property it would be a much more employee friendly place. I also hope that it gives them an edge in hiring which wou…

> now if they would drop the overly > expansive ownership claim in their > employment agreement California Labor Code §96(k)

[deleted]

Re: Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees

#203

Post by scarejunba » Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 5:59 AM UTC

kerng wrote: post #167

scarejunba wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing. I'm never going to be stopped from working with a guy who wants me to work with him simply because some moron in an ivory tower thinks I don't have the credentials. This is good. I won't accept the alternative.

The way quality assurance works in software engineering is way below any other industry - so I wouldn't be surprised if at one point some base qualifications are needed, much like a doctor, architect, nurse or teacher...

Oh I'm of the opinion that it will happen. But I aim to delay it as long as possible until my career ends. After that y'all can turn into a super-IBM. Be my guest.

Re: Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees

#204

Post by Eridrus » Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 6:03 AM UTC

40acres wrote: post #25

This has low key been a big year for labor in tech. First we have Amazon backing out of NYC partly due to political pressure from the unions and wins like this vs. Google. Full blown unionization may never happen but the forces of labor are definitely starting to affect tech giants.

I don't think the unions actually had much to do with Amazon pulling out. Some unions were actually for it either because they were involved in the construction plans or thought it would give them leverage if Amazon was more firmly rooted there.

Re: Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees

#205

Post by scottlamb » Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 6:07 AM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #183

marssaxman wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all sounds completely normal. Do people actually imagine that the hardware they use at work is somehow theirs, and not their employer's? "Keep a hard boundary between your work and personal systems" has always been the right answer. I am surprised that this does not seem obvious to everyone.

"used to conduct the business of the company" is not the same as "employer's hardware".

That's the employee's choice, though. I log in to my @google.com account with my personal phone, but I don't have to. If I'd rather keep personal and work totally separate, I can request a Google-issued phone to carry alongside my personal one. I have teammates who do this.

Re: Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees

#206

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 6:24 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #87

ergothus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying unions won't work...I'm saying they weren't involved in this case. This case doesn't look particularly repeatable WITHOUT unions.

I think that was the point. The original parent was making a tongue-in-cheek reference to how tech workers seem to resist the idea of forming a union, but occasionally band together to do union-like things informally, in an ad-hoc, not-particularly-reliable fashion.

Perhaps they can get the best of unions without getting the worst of unions with this behavior.

Re: Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees

#207

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 6:25 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #10

Wow, you mean collective employee action can be used to force an employer to stop exploitative behaviors? Who knew? :-) I'm really glad to hear that Google made this step, now if they would drop the overly expansive ownership claim in their employment agreement and the right to surveillance on personal property it would be a much more employee friendly place. I also hope that it gives them an edge in hiring which wou…

[deleted]

Re: Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees

#208

Post by hrktb » Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 6:26 AM UTC

sudhirj wrote: post #194

kodablah wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it as "see, didn't require forming a union to get something done in the tech industry"

Do unions allow competition among union members? It’s always seemed to me that they work in jobs where the people are replaceable. In Google one could work to make 2x to 3x more than the next person - is that will possible with a union? Seems like in jobs where individual talent / skills matter, a union is by definition harmful (unless you’re in the lower 50%). Collective action / protest works fine, though, for esta…

Nothing in the notion of union stops competition or talent/skill expression.

A lot of people only associate unions with factory workers kind of jobs, it’s not. Think of journalists or performing actors unions for instance.

Re: Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees

#209

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 6:28 AM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #182

throwaway0220 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: Googler here) +1. Google gives you a corp phone and computer (even multiple ones, if needed); why the heck you'd want to use your personal devices? Plus using a personal device is strongly discouraged. Also, all the companies I've worked before had similar clauses, and would always push iOS or Android certificates into your phone, so they can remote wipe the device when you leave company. Seems fairly st…

We are not supplied with a corp phone, they're only for people with a 'business need.' Been @ Google 7 years and never had one given to me other than holiday gift phones. Now, some of the nooglers sitting near me seem to think they're entitled to one, so maybe the messaging has changed. but I just looked it up and the language is: "Full-time Googlers with a business need are eligible for one Google-paid mobile phone…

No one is going to give you anything. Have you ever asked your manager?

If you ever have had an on-call shift, or had to log in remotely to perform some work function? If so, then you qualify. You probably also qualify for them to pay for your home internet.

> Many Googlers I know have Corp set up on their personal phone.

That's stupid. Seems like a good way to get all of your data wiped off of your personal phone.

What is the company cost of the average engineer at google? It must be like...at least $300k or $400k/yr. They will pay another $600/yr for a phone and service for you if they think it will improve your productivity.

Re: Google Ends Forced Arbitration for Employees

#210

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 6:34 AM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #188

throwaway0220 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: Googler here) +1. Google gives you a corp phone and computer (even multiple ones, if needed); why the heck you'd want to use your personal devices? Plus using a personal device is strongly discouraged. Also, all the companies I've worked before had similar clauses, and would always push iOS or Android certificates into your phone, so they can remote wipe the device when you leave company. Seems fairly st…

I never had a corp phone at Google and was never offered one. As far as I know they weren't available to me. It wasn't usually a problem but there were definitely cases where if I had a corp phone it would've made things easier - not like I was going to sync my personal phone up to corp and get it remote wiped. They do hand out corp laptops like candy, which is great, but if you need to test software you're developin…

Couldn't you just buy the card yourself on amazon or whatever and expense it?

If you brought your own GPU in to do debugging for work, and you end up frying it(lets say from the bug), would you expect google to reimburse you for it?

With any company that I've experienced, there is pretty much never a need to use personal stuff for work reasons.