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I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

esquire.com

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Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#41

Post by cmroanirgo »

mikekchar wrote: post #31
mirceal wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the message is that meditation has a dark side and some previous imbalances may land you in deep trouble. people don’t really acknowledge this and put an = between meditation and calm/transcendence. same thing as with certain types of substances. you may have a really good or a really bad experience. at least with meditation there is some work (a lot actually) involved and along the way you get a chance to process so…

I'll be honest. I was left feeling that the author has mental health problems and that this experience happened to trigger it. I'm coloured by past experiences as I've had a very good friend suffer from psychotic episodes that sounds very, very similar to what the author suffered. I think the idea that it was drugs, insomnia, or meditation that caused the problem is a rationalisation - one that my friend made as well…

As a long time mediator, your response was what I also saw in the article.

People damage themselves in all kinds of ways when they are unsuited/poorly trained/ prepared for extreme environments.

You wouldn't expect a grossly overweight person to run 11hrs a day for 10 days. Goenka's practices are extreme, and the 10 day silent retreat isn't suitable for everyone.

This is why there's the questionnaire for Vipassana during enrollment: it's an attempt to recognise someone who's not fit enough (yet) for it. That the author was able to persuade the volunteers, despite his known past, to let him in should not really reflect against them.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#42

Post by newnewpdro »

simplecomplex wrote: post #7

> my previous stint [taking mind altering anti-psychotic drugs] had lasted a decade Very interesting how much the author focuses on this one weekend retreat of sitting around, and not on his admitted long term use of experimental mind altering antipsychotic drugs. This sounds like commonly reported withdrawal symptoms (aka freaking the fuck out) from long term use of very very powerful poorly understood drugs.

> This sounds like commonly reported withdrawal symptoms (aka freaking the fuck out) from long term use of very very powerful poorly understood drugs.

Withdrawal symptoms do not last decades.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#44

Post by pubudutr »

Being a Buddhist born person living in a mostly Buddhist country this saddens me. It seems all this hype with so called Buddhist retreats and meditation apps in the western world is pretty much twisting the teachings of Buddha. Monks have practiced meditation for centuries without any adverse effects as mentioned in the article. It seems like they focus on _state of being mindful_ than really being mindful. Meditation is not that difficult. And certainly does not require an app or a spiritual guide. Try learning a little about Buddhism and read up on meditation.(maybe avoid the best sellers and go for something written by a real monk?)

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#45

Post by latchkey »

I now live about 5 minutes from where the Vietnamese monk burned himself alive and drive past it all the time [1]. It is now a very busy intersection with probably hundreds of thousands of people passing by daily, there is a temple on the corner. I'd say that the majority of people passing by have no idea what happened here in the past.

[1] https://goo.gl/maps/A1BeFPr9nuA2

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#46

Post by mcshicks »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #32
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took it as the author simply relating their experience and including some informed opinions on it. What was news to me was that this can happen just with meditation! I didn’t know that.

A retreat is more than just meditation . As others have point out in the discussion here, a retreat typically includes at least some of the follow: 1. Sudden and drastic change in sleep / wake schedule than you might be used to 2. Sudden and drastic change in diet 3. Sudden and drastic change in level of autonomy vs collectivism 4. Sudden and dramatic deference to authority / leadership 5. A lack of, or complete abse…

I've been doing 2 to 3 week long meditation retreats every year for the past 10 years or so. I don't disagree with anything your are saying in particular. However I do think there is value in them (otherwise I wouldn't keep going), but I also think people should ease their way in. Do a 1 day retreat first, then do some three days, and then do a week. Have a regular meditation practice, preferably with the same people you are doing the retreats with. So in my specific case I've known all of the teachers for 15 years or so, and usually most of participants for many years. We do ask for medical disclosures for participants, and it's not like we have been completely without any incidents. I think your points are well taken, but I would advise people who are interested in meditation and retreats so just use some common sense and don't rush into it and know the people you are doing it with. For me at least it's a very rewarding experience.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#48

Post by cmroanirgo »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #32
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took it as the author simply relating their experience and including some informed opinions on it. What was news to me was that this can happen just with meditation! I didn’t know that.

A retreat is more than just meditation . As others have point out in the discussion here, a retreat typically includes at least some of the follow: 1. Sudden and drastic change in sleep / wake schedule than you might be used to 2. Sudden and drastic change in diet 3. Sudden and drastic change in level of autonomy vs collectivism 4. Sudden and dramatic deference to authority / leadership 5. A lack of, or complete abse…

These Vipassana retreats are not ashrams like you mention. Many of your other points are not untrue, but seem a little baited to me, understandably, given your position.

There's a great deal of difference between honest people trying to help those looking for something outside the standard (because it's helped them personally), and predators. I'm sorry for your friends, but what happened at Mangrove Mtn is a different story.

I also don't disagree that there's a lot to be suspicious of, but it shouldn't cloud your mind to assume that everyone is either delusional, fraudulent or predatory.

Many people have experiences and feelings that can't be explained by healthcare professionals. Many healthcare professionals have had unexplainable experiences and feelings. The phenomena of near death experiences is an example: people clinically dead, but were able to describe their operating room from a strange angle with great precision. This is why people go there in the first place: they're looking for answers. Unfortunately, your friends found wolves.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#49

Post by droithomme »

The fee based retreat this poor guy went to reminds me of the fee based authentic native sweat lodge performances done in Sedona Arizona where people die and the lodge medicine man later proves to be some guy that has no connection to any native nation.

People can have profound insights and yes also freak outs based on intense meditation. That's normally considered a success, and is something that a legitimate monastery or retreat is equipped to handle without calling police to arrest the meditator by force and imprisoning him in a psychiatric detention facility, to have the paper trail from that frame and follow him for the rest of his life.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#50

Post by droithomme »

walrus01 wrote: post #4

> I didn’t want to stay medicated (my previous stint had lasted a decade), and I understood that the rules of the retreat meant that as I had left before the end, I could not go back. Vipassanā makes it clear in its literature regarding “serious mental disorders” that: “Our capacity as a non-professional volunteer organisation makes it impossible to properly care for people with these backgrounds.” I don't really see…

> freak out in a greek monastery on the the Athos peninsula, you're also likely to get hauled away in handcuffs

I'm not clear on why it should be obvious that someone freaking out during an intense meditation should be "likely" to get "hauled away in handcuffs". Could you explain?

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