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Public protest against Amazon

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Re: Public protest against Amazon

#511

Post by int_19h »

vviktor wrote: post #337
madrox wrote: post #164

Disclaimer: I currently work at Amazon as an SDM (I do not speak for the company). I've also worked a lot of other places. In my experience, bad managers can happen anywhere. I'm not going to take sides since all we have is a story told by an ex-employee who has every reason to be spiteful toward his former employer. The other side of this story is one we'll likely never hear. I do want to comment on the visa aspect…

WTF? Why it can't be simple "just go somewhere else"? Well, just go to some other country. I'm not saying it's easy, but why bang your head against the wall. Go somewhere else, and, if you really want, come back another time, through a different company or on different terms.

Take a look at green card priority dates sometime, and consider how many people it takes to push them there.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...

American citizenship is an extremely valuable commodity in the developing world.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#512

Post by int_19h »

smattiso wrote: post #41
the-pigeon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this story is that it's more about an abusive boss at Amazon than Amazon. Any large company is going to have abusive individuals in it. I think the real issue this story illustrates is that when people are brought over on work visas they have no leverage with their employer. As an American citizen software engineer my boss knows that if I'm unhappy I will just leave. But the boss of someone on a work…

But isn't that why companies hire employees on visas to begin with? I would venture to guess for every 1 truly pioneering mind that is working in the US on a H1-B visa there are 100 people working on CRUD software at Amazon or Microsoft.

Depends on the company. Companies like Tata and Infosys (which, until recent changes, had something like 80% of H1B quota), sure. Companies like Amazon and Microsoft do not do this as a matter of policy (which is why they sponsor most of their H1B employees for green card); but individual managers are still aware of the kind of leverage this gives them, and some of them try to use it.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#513

Post by watwut »

kamaal wrote: post #444
watwut wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every workplace is as sociopathic. And I would rather emulate people who have ethical limits rather then those who seek power regarless of how much they lie or cause harm .

Every workplace is made up of Human structures, and humans act as humans. I'm only suggesting you shield yourself from problems, not create the problems yourself. Getting yourself immunity isn't exactly wrong.

> Never give feedback at work, unless positive. This includes things like code review.

This rule is creating problems. It actively makes relationships and work itself worst. It creates leads to passive aggressive environment where everyone is insecure and in doubt and problems wont get solved.

> There can be no friends at work.

Same here.

> No permanent friends or enemies only allies based on interest that serves you.

Same here too. I am glad I worked in mutually cooperative environment where people took my interests into account and did not based all their actions on their own interest.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#514

Post by lotsofpulp »

int_19h wrote: post #510
lotsofpulp wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bi-weekly, or every 2 weeks, is norm in US as far as I know. It's easier for everyone in my opinion, except maybe employers that want to take advantage of their employees.

It's just a cultural convention, nothing more. Monthly seems to be the norm in Europe, bi-weekly in US and Canada. I've done both, and there's no practical difference.

It’s always beneficial to have your money faster. No reason employer should get to hold on to it longer and get interest and liquidity. In the extreme case, at least you’re not working a whole month before finding out employer has no money to pay you. And while you may legally be entitled to it, who knows how long the legal system delivers it to you.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#515

Post by mirceal »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #343
mirceal wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

depending on how you define race (if you look at it in the broader trrm of ethnicity) you can definitely talk about racism.

It's not about ethnicity because these stereotypes completely exclude Indians that grew up in America. Whether you classify it as racist or not, going around classifying stuff as racist is a total non-contribution to the world. Opinions being "racist" per your view does not imply they are incorrect or morally wrong to hold, or express. (There is something ambitious about remotely diagnosing some guy (by association)…

i did not see the clause that excluded people that did not grew in India.

Every time you take one label and you apply it to a large group of people that have something in common you have the potential to be labeled yourself as racist. IMHO that’s the definition of racism: you take a negative attribute and you map it to a class of people. usually you also imply that you/we are better than them.

here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

“prejudice against people based on their ethnicity”

i may have an idiosyncratic definition of racism or we may have different understandings but this definitely crosses the line.

if the claim was made that the guy’s manager is so and so, we would have left it at that. but the claim was targeted at all managers that are indian. that’s fucked up.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#516

Post by all_blue_chucks »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #392
all_blue_chucks wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineer pay at tech companies in the US tends to be $150k for junior engineers to $300k+ for senior engineers.

No, this is false. The top paid junior engineers might be paid $150k in base salary PLUS bonuses and stock/other compensation. Same goes for the 300k+ for senior engineers.

Why would you think bonuses don't count as pay? All financial compensation is pay.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#517

Post by rak00n »

BurningFrog wrote: post #506
rak00n wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an odd analogy knowing USA went into a bloody civil war to fix that. You're comparing a broken system with an older and even more broken system that we already fixed and trying to find merit in current broken system by that comparison. Of course it's better to be alive than being squashed by a dinosaur. But how's that relevant?

It's relevant if someone just claimed that being alive was the same as being squashed by a dinosaur, to stick with your metaphor. Or plainly: Someone said that H1B was the same as slavery. I called it bullshit.

Ok, that makes sense.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#518

Post by philihp »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #99
ownagefool wrote: post #14

I had a manager that took over from a previous person when I was working remote. There were a few issues, but the one that stands out is they flew me down to London for a week, set me up in a hotel, and had me take taxis back and fourth to the office and expense food etc. After returning home, he rejected my expenses because of variance of costs of the taxis, despite me pointing out that I was using the stipulated ve…

I was recently offered a job by a software company, work from home, paid monthly. I presently work in metal fabrication. Not only was their offer $30,000 below my current income, their deal was I front cash for expenses and submit claims monthly. Is this standard in the software world? Because from my perspective there’s only one possible answer to paying expenses out of pocket and having to claim them back: No.

A company who values inclusion and diversity should understand that people who are unable to float a monthly expense buffer are very often those same demographics that have been marginalized by those working in the software industry.

Getting credit card points while you know your employer is almost certainly going to reimburse you is a nice benefit, but the industry should definitely seek to improve by making this optional. Especially for prohibitively large large expenses (flights, lodging) default to paying these upfront.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#519

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

philihp wrote: post #518
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently offered a job by a software company, work from home, paid monthly. I presently work in metal fabrication. Not only was their offer $30,000 below my current income, their deal was I front cash for expenses and submit claims monthly. Is this standard in the software world? Because from my perspective there’s only one possible answer to paying expenses out of pocket and having to claim them back: No.

A company who values inclusion and diversity should understand that people who are unable to float a monthly expense buffer are very often those same demographics that have been marginalized by those working in the software industry. Getting credit card points while you know your employer is almost certainly going to reimburse you is a nice benefit, but the industry should definitely seek to improve by making this op…

Well put.

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#520

Post by notyourwork »

halbritt wrote: post #175
whoisjuan wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because Amazon doesn't work like a cohesive monolithic organization. Two teams that seat next to each other may have complete different cultures and ways of working. By design, Amazon is an aggregator of many small "startups" with different budgets, different issues, different approaches to solving problems. The connecting tissues are the leadership principles, the infrastructure, the resources, the mobility a…

The leadership principles in and of themselves strike me as something that is likely to lead to a toxic culture. For reference: https://www.amazon.jobs/en/principles

What about them leads to a toxic work place?
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