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Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

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Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#131

Post by tyingq »

blihp wrote: post #11
tyingq wrote: post #6

The coarse permissions and alarming text from the OS is a problem with both Android and iOS. Often, an app wants something fairly innocous, but has to ask for more, because it's grouped with other things in the same permission ask. Then, the OS message shifts all the blame with scary messages about what the app wants to do.

Two problems with this assumption per the article: 1) the app previously worked fine without the location information 2) the app no longer works at all without location information. The only legitimate use case for location I can think of would be to pull down cable/tv/radio channel/station listings. But this shouldn't be a requirement since the user could easily manually enter in the ones they want. My guess is that…

"the app previously worked fine without the location information"

Maybe. Perhaps they fielded a lot of support requests related to getting Bluetooth and/or WiFi connectivity established before using the remote for the first time.

So it worked fine for this user, but didn't work well for less technical customers.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#132

Post by ken »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #36
tyingq wrote: post #6

The coarse permissions and alarming text from the OS is a problem with both Android and iOS. Often, an app wants something fairly innocous, but has to ask for more, because it's grouped with other things in the same permission ask. Then, the OS message shifts all the blame with scary messages about what the app wants to do.

This can easily be solved by app developers though. Add a screen before the permission explaining why you want that particular permission, and limit asking permissions to the point that you need to use them rather than the first time the app starts up. Too many apps ask for permission immediately without any context as to why they're doing it.

On the iOS App Store, giving a reason is required -- apps will fail review if it's missing, or even if it's not specific enough.

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/718/?time=8...

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#133

Post by secabeen »

hedora wrote: post #78
derriz wrote: post #13

At least they acknowledged it, responded to the feedback and fixed it. Unfortunately I have a Sonos system which became effectively bricked unless I signed a new user agreement allowing the collection of data. There are no physical controls on Sonos so the system becomes useless without accepting. They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year…

Does anyone know of a good (from a privacy and usability perspective) alternative to Sonos? I plan to buy 5-6 of them sometime later this year, and for what that costs, they have no excuse to data-harvest me.

Do you want to stream audio from online streaming services, or just play local files from your NAS/PC?

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#134

Post by secabeen »

derriz wrote: post #13

At least they acknowledged it, responded to the feedback and fixed it. Unfortunately I have a Sonos system which became effectively bricked unless I signed a new user agreement allowing the collection of data. There are no physical controls on Sonos so the system becomes useless without accepting. They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year…

I don't have any internal data, but I expect that the percentage of Sonos users that play music from a local source is in the single-digit percentage now. The product they sell is focused on supporting streaming audio and voice control, all of which involved 100% monitoring of what you play and ask for. You're just not their customer anymore.

You can find old used squeezeboxes on Ebay, and their server software is just a big perl script. That might meet your needs.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#135

Post by jnurmine »

codetrotter wrote: post #12

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning. The excuse is that you can use these things as a proxy for location. That is, if I know you are near access point X your location is probably near Y. It’s not an “excuse”, it’s a fact. If you allow an app to scan SSIDs you are allowing it to know your location. No amount of sarcasm on the part of OP is going to change that.

I am probably missing something about the BLE scanning process, but why does one need the location permission after the first pairing?

Could one not just try to connect to the paired devices without scanning? There are presumably not that many paired devices.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#136

Post by Notorious_BLT »

criddell wrote: post #106
conesus wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you do with the remote is between you and what you control. I store anonymous metrics that I use to gauge usage levels but you can turn that off. Sonos undoubtedly takes your listening habits and profits off that data but Turn Touch does not, even though it has access to that data.

> I store anonymous metrics that I use to gauge usage levels How valuable has that data proven to be? Is it worth collecting?

Assumedly it can be used to inform which features are most used by customers, and thus most worth investing additional development effort in.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#138

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

conesus wrote: post #122
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an awesome product. Have you ever seen anyone with nightstand or coffee table where they hollowed out a section for the remote to go in. I like the idea of being able to pop it out and take it withe me, but 99% of the time I would want it in the exact same place so I would love if it could lie flush and be a part of nightstand.

I built a complementary product called the pedestal which does exactly this. You can either mount it on the wall (it has magnets to hold it in place) or place it on a nightstand (as I do) where it lives in the same place every time when I reach for it.

Wow... your answer makes my question sound like it was sponsored.

But you are awesome. I will be making an order.

I've been looking for a way to turn all the lights off in the house and shut off my kids iPad. I can do these things by going into apps on my phone, but when I'm wanting to do it I'm often REALLY exhausted and would kill for a 1 button solution.

I don't quite see how I can use this to shut off the iPad easily. But it definitely helps with the lights. And I think if I hook the house Wifi up to a smart switch I can basically turn the iPad off.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#139

Post by Johnny555 »

codetrotter wrote: post #12

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning. The excuse is that you can use these things as a proxy for location. That is, if I know you are near access point X your location is probably near Y. It’s not an “excuse”, it’s a fact. If you allow an app to scan SSIDs you are allowing it to know your location. No amount of sarcasm on the part of OP is going to change that.

How about a limited API that lets a program scan for a particular SSID - so it can look for a "PioneerSoundsystem" SSID, but it's much harder to scan for all SSID's.

Still not perfect, since it can search for well-known SSID's like "StarbucksWifi" or "Comcast", but it limits the exposure - the API could have a limit on how many SSID's can be searched for by the app before you need to re-authorize it, so it can only search for 6 SSID's instead of the top 10,000 SSID's.

Or the permission request can include the SSID "This app asking for permission to search for PioneerSoundsystem SSID" or maybe a prefix like "PioneerSoundsystem-*" so they can append unique ID's.

Though in reality it will never happen because few people care -- most people are happy granting the app whatever permission it requests.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#140

Post by LoSboccacc »

bunderbunder wrote: post #72
ryanbrunner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is worse, in a way - from what I can tell at the point of purchase the system didn't have the problematic data collection - that was added later in an update. Even a savvy consumer who researched which product to buy would be screwed in this circumstance. It does seem to me that once a product is purchased, it ought to remain usable and supported under the terms it was purchased under, but that seems a long way…

The law could include a ban on firmware updates that subsequently introduce and require sensitive data collection post-purchase. That said, I'm not sure you can really pin this down. It's probably better to just assume that any device that requires a wi-fi connection to work is phoning home until proven otherwise. And you have to assume that any device that phones home is collecting data. It's not even a secret that…

I think this should be approached more broadly, making void any clause on contracts that allow unilateral modification on the contract at a later date
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