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Dr. Rhonda Patrick on DHA in Phospholipid Form and the Prevention of Alzheimers

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Re: Dr. Rhonda Patrick on DHA in Phospholipid Form and the Prevention of Alzheimers

#31

Post by nate_meurer »

mrob wrote: post #8
gumby wrote: post #2

When you eat oily fish you are eating the same oil that is expelled and inserted into a capsule. So how is the form changed?

The natural oil in the fish is found as triglycerides and as phospholipids. A triglyceride is an ester made from three fatty acid molecules attached to a glyerol molecule (you get esters by reacting carboxylic acids with alcohols, and glycerol is a polyol alcohol with three hydroxyl groups). A phospholipid is very similar except one of the fatty acids is replaced by some hydrophilic molecule that's attached to the gl…

This is an excellent, concise, clear explanation, thank you.

> fish oil is only sold by EPA/DHA concentration. Nobody will buy natural fish oil because the EPA/DHA levels are too low.

So only free fatty acids are allowed to be listed on the label as EPA/DHA? They're not allowed to count any esterified fatty acids?

Re: Dr. Rhonda Patrick on DHA in Phospholipid Form and the Prevention of Alzheimers

#32

Post by honzzz »

jmole wrote: post #3

Rhonda Patrick is one of my favorite people to listen to. She did a great interview with Joe Rogan talking all about health, digestion, nutrients, diets, etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8X_bs_fzI

Let me add two interviews with Tim Ferriss:

Dr. Rhonda Patrick on Life Extension, Performance, and Much More https://tim.blog/2014/06/10/the-tim-ferriss-show-rhonda-patr...

Exploring Smart Drugs, Fasting, and Fat Loss https://tim.blog/2017/05/04/smart-drugs-fasting-and-fat-loss...

Re: Dr. Rhonda Patrick on DHA in Phospholipid Form and the Prevention of Alzheimers

#33

Post by honzzz »

leekyle333 wrote: post #28
zeroname wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More bluntly, ALA supplementation doesn't work: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19269799?dopt=Abstract

Walnuts also have a lot of Omega 6 which will lessen the conversion of Omega 3 into useable forms.

Do I understand this correctly that if I consume a lot of Omega 6 (I love olive oil and nuts and consume large quantities of both) I might actually harm myself? Do I make Alzheimer disease more likely by Omega 6 rich diet?

EDIT: I confused Omega 3 Omega 6, corrected.

Re: Dr. Rhonda Patrick on DHA in Phospholipid Form and the Prevention of Alzheimers

#34

Post by mrob »

nate_meurer wrote: post #31
mrob wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The natural oil in the fish is found as triglycerides and as phospholipids. A triglyceride is an ester made from three fatty acid molecules attached to a glyerol molecule (you get esters by reacting carboxylic acids with alcohols, and glycerol is a polyol alcohol with three hydroxyl groups). A phospholipid is very similar except one of the fatty acids is replaced by some hydrophilic molecule that's attached to the gl…

This is an excellent, concise, clear explanation, thank you. > fish oil is only sold by EPA/DHA concentration. Nobody will buy natural fish oil because the EPA/DHA levels are too low. So only free fatty acids are allowed to be listed on the label as EPA/DHA? They're not allowed to count any esterified fatty acids?

I don't know the details of labeling laws, but I believe fish oil is most commonly sold as ethyl esters, and this is called "fish oil concentrate". Free fatty acids are considered a defect in edible oils. They taste rancid and make the oil decay faster. Triglycerides and ethyl esters both get digested in the small intestine by pancreatic lipase enzymes, releasing free fatty acids where you can't taste them. Both raise blood levels of free fatty acids, and the quantity of ethanol released from the ethyl esters is small enough that I think it's very unlikely to matter.

But as the article points out, phospolipids get digested differently, and phospolipids are converted to ethyl esters in the transesterification processing too. By focusing only on blood levels of fatty acids, people overlooked a potentially important difference between natural and processed fish oil.

Re: Dr. Rhonda Patrick on DHA in Phospholipid Form and the Prevention of Alzheimers

#35

Post by bigmit37 »

mrob wrote: post #8
gumby wrote: post #2

When you eat oily fish you are eating the same oil that is expelled and inserted into a capsule. So how is the form changed?

The natural oil in the fish is found as triglycerides and as phospholipids. A triglyceride is an ester made from three fatty acid molecules attached to a glyerol molecule (you get esters by reacting carboxylic acids with alcohols, and glycerol is a polyol alcohol with three hydroxyl groups). A phospholipid is very similar except one of the fatty acids is replaced by some hydrophilic molecule that's attached to the gl…

Is this the same for bottled flax oil? I am under the impression that flax oil has similar properties to fish oil.

Re: Dr. Rhonda Patrick on DHA in Phospholipid Form and the Prevention of Alzheimers

#36

Post by mrob »

bigmit37 wrote: post #35
mrob wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The natural oil in the fish is found as triglycerides and as phospholipids. A triglyceride is an ester made from three fatty acid molecules attached to a glyerol molecule (you get esters by reacting carboxylic acids with alcohols, and glycerol is a polyol alcohol with three hydroxyl groups). A phospholipid is very similar except one of the fatty acids is replaced by some hydrophilic molecule that's attached to the gl…

Is this the same for bottled flax oil? I am under the impression that flax oil has similar properties to fish oil.

I've never heard of concentrated flax oil, and all flax oil I've seen has the ALA levels I'd expect of natural flax oil. However, as discussed elsewhere in the comments, humans are not good at converting ALA to EPA and DHA, so flax oil cannot be considered a full substitute for fish oil.

Re: Dr. Rhonda Patrick on DHA in Phospholipid Form and the Prevention of Alzheimers

#37

Post by WalterSear »

gnulinux wrote: post #23
WalterSear wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't. In order to overcome the omega-6 metabolic preference, you need to consume, at a minimum twice as much omega-3 oils as omega-6, but actually closer to 4x. Twice as much omega-3 means eliminating olive oil, soy, most nuts, and many other foods. Or, alternatively, downing a pint or so of flax seed every day.

Everything you said is true except I can't see how fish helps in this case. You still need to eat a lot of fish (especially since most fish are very low fat, salmon is a good choice) and cut Omega 6 sources, if you want to make Omega 3:Omega 6 ratio 2:1.

Algae, and the fish that live on it, don't provide omega-3 oils. They provide the fully formed end products, DHA and EPA, so the metabolic bottleneck is avoided.

Re: Dr. Rhonda Patrick on DHA in Phospholipid Form and the Prevention of Alzheimers

#38

Post by WalterSear »

knodi123 wrote: post #25
WalterSear wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can. > This finding suggests that when animal foods are wholly excluded from the diet, the endogenous production of EPA and DHA results in low but stable plasma concentrations of these fatty acids. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16087975

And yet in the article, > Unfortunately, the body cannot produce DHA on its own, and it must be acquired through the diet. So is Rhonda waaaaay behind the times re: that 14-year old paper? Or are the levels described in that paper negligible? Or did I misinterpret something, or what?

Good question. She may be simplifying things, or not thinking of vegans/vegetarians. No doubt it's a suboptimal amount.

Re: Dr. Rhonda Patrick on DHA in Phospholipid Form and the Prevention of Alzheimers

#39

Post by virtuallynathan »

ardy42 wrote: post #30
virtuallynathan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there is. I have had mine tested as I altered my diet to include more fish roe, fish liver, and fatty fish. I took my omega6:omega3 ratio from 3.5:1 to 1.5:1 in ~3 months. Total O3: 10.2% -> 16.5% DPA: 1.2% -> 3.2% EPA: 3.4% -> 4.3% DHA: 5.4% -> 9.2% I don't have a "before" on the standard american diet, but IIRC the average american has an omega6:3 ratio of about 15-20:1.

> I have had mine tested as I altered my diet... How/where did you get tested?

I got it done via OmegaQuant, costs $99 and can be ordered online.
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