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EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

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Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Julia Reda doesn't want you to read the law she's opposed to, she wants you to be opposed to it I've skimmed the relevant passages and it didn't seem to me like she's claiming anything that's not true. You can play the word game of if that particular phrase was there or not, but the intent is clear for anyone, except perhaps those with vested interest in having this passed.

The narrative of focusing on "those with vested interest in having this passed" is ignoring those with a vested interest in it not being passed. Julia's meeting list on her website is a Who's Who is Google and organizations Google is a part of or funding. I would argue I have a vested interest in having this passed: I want an Internet which isn't predominantly controlled by one corporation which steals content from e…

> Who's Who is Google and organizations Google is a part of or funding. I would argue I have a vested interest in having this passed: I want an Internet which isn't predominantly controlled by one corporation which steals content from everyone else and passes it off as their own. I have no employer or funding source based on this, I don't work for anyone in the movie, music, news, or tech industry, I just want a better Internet, and the EU both in antitrust and copyright reform, seems to be delivering it.

I am sorry, but this seem misguided. Corporations like Google may very well be the only ones capable of handling this and even offer a service to scan everyone's files, meaning smaller businesses will let Google know about every single upload they receive, making Google even stronger and effectively banning zero-knowledge, privacy focused providers.

This is like internet 'fast lanes'. It isn't Google who would not be able to pay.

Certainly makes me re-think my Mastodon instance strategy and future plans to set up business in the EU.

I am someone who is on what many would call the 'far-left' and not at all against good regulation, but this simply isn't one of them.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#112
post #106
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well some of the context I mentioned was a democratic government, free press, independent courts, etc. So that would have to change.

My point is these don't have to be abolished at once with a single law, there can also be a gradual decline. This law _does_ threaten free speech by basically forcing platforms introduce content filters. First to be used for copyrighted content, but once it's there it can easily be extended to hate speech, fake news, defamation and other euphemisms for the content to be censored. It basically un-does a lot of interne…

I don't like the law either, it might even impact some of the context I mention, but that context is still there if we're talking about OP's headline vs headline discussion.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#113
What a bullshit title. It is not aimed at Google and Facebook. Those are the companies that have more than enough resources to be compliant. It's the small and aspiring companies that are not yet established that would suffer the most from this directive. Googles, Amazons and Facebooks would be just fine, safer then ever since the barrier to entry is bigger and bigger with every new directive.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#114
post #42
post #8

Let’s be optimistic. This will severely impact social media. It will be censored like never before, and attacking opponents by “reporting” their posts will be more effective than ever. Trolls will have a EU-sanctioned field-day. And what real users are going to bother staying on a platform like that? Maybe this will revitalize hosting of personal websites where there’s no “platform” to censor your free speech?

Not gonna happen in Germany. In Germany if you own a website, you're obliged to tell the world your home address. (That is, by the way, why everyone knows where Lennart Poettering lives).

That's not true.

You need to provide an impression if your website has a commercial or journalistic character. Yes, it's vague and up to the interpretation of a court.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#115

This is sad and disgusting, our speech is being limited completely unfairly and without our consent and we're being told that it's a good thing. The fact that they're trying to package it as some sort of well-deserved revenge against silicon valley big tech is just tasteless. The EU's big gripe against these companies is their tax situation, if they really wanted to change that then they'd be looking into a unified a…

6 of the 8 MEPs representing me have consented to it. Are you in favour of direct democracy on every single vote of every single law at every single level of government?

If you do that, you get stuff like Brexit.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#116

Does anyone have a link to the actual law? All I can find are news stories with too little information.

The current draft compromise is not yet published. Article 11[0] and 13[1] have been leaked by Julia Reda, though.

[0]: https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Art_11_unoff...

[1]: https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Art_13_unoff...

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask which country you are from?

Sweden. Out of 20 Swedish representatives 18 are against and 2 have no track record (neither clearly against or supporting): https://saveyourinternet.eu/se/ You can see how representatives in other countries voted by navigating from https://saveyourinternet.eu/act/

Unfortunately, out of the 13 Danish MEPs, only 2 are against with 1 having no track record.

:(

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody complaining about the law has actually read the law . Julia Reda doesn't want you to read the law she's opposed to, she wants you to be opposed to it based on the "link tax" and "upload filter" nicknames that have been coined for it.

> Julia Reda doesn't want you to read the law she's opposed to, she wants you to be opposed to it I've skimmed the relevant passages and it didn't seem to me like she's claiming anything that's not true. You can play the word game of if that particular phrase was there or not, but the intent is clear for anyone, except perhaps those with vested interest in having this passed.

>I've skimmed the relevant passages and it didn't seem to me like she's claiming anything that's not true.

The "link tax" is certainly a false claim. Paragraph 1 of Article 11[0] clearly states:

>The protection granted under the first subparagraph shall not apply to acts of hyperlinking.

Also:

>The rights referred to in the first subparagraph shall not apply in respect of uses of individual words or very short extracts of a press publication.

[0]: https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Art_11_unoff...

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#119
post #11

This is sad and disgusting, our speech is being limited completely unfairly and without our consent and we're being told that it's a good thing. The fact that they're trying to package it as some sort of well-deserved revenge against silicon valley big tech is just tasteless. The EU's big gripe against these companies is their tax situation, if they really wanted to change that then they'd be looking into a unified a…

I wanted to add that, in the US, it isn't primarily the constitution that protects its freedoms, but rather the structure of their government and how it's been setup for gridlock among all the parties involved (not that that property has been preserved too well of late). Antonin Scalia explained it really well in one of his appearances in front of a Senate Judiciary Committee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--…

Believe me, there is way more friction in the EU system, especially due to the principle of subsidiarity. This copyright directive enjoys the benefit of only requiring a qualified majority in the Council (legislative chamber representing the national governments). Most sensitive issues require unanimity, meaning that every member state has the power to veto legislation.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#120
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more It is absolutely not. That's a preposterous assumption. If it was the case then no European state could send people to prison or fine them for having an opinion, yet look at France, where insulting the president is a crime and denying "official" history has landed people in jail (I don't condone either of these, it's just about principle)…

It absolutely is, depending on your p.o.v. I know the U.S. is big on their "freedom of speech" since it's one of the few things all citizens agree on, an All American Shibboleth, so to speak, but National Security trumps everything. There are plenty of things you can say at the border that will get you on the next plane back home. There may or may not be people being held in captivity without access to a lawyer for t…

> If it matters there are a lot of restrictions and there can be dire consequences.

That's blatantly incorrect. Name a bunch of examples of that please. It's the very rare exception that you can't publish something in the US.

You mention Snowden: he was able to publish the documents in the US. Numerous US media outlets published documents from the Snowden cache. It got non-stop coverage for most of that year in the US as the reveals rolled on. That the media can publish such doesn't mean the action of stealing classified documents from the government should be legal, that would be absurd.

The US Government is almost entirely powerless to prevent very embarrassing things from coming out, such as Abu Ghraib as one dramatic example. If they could do what you're claiming they can, they would have shut all of that down immediately and it would have never been published across basically all media in the US for a year.

Nixon, watergate and the pentagon papers is another obvious example where the substantial US protections for the press won out.

COINTELPRO and the Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI is another example. The US media was able to publish the stolen documents.

We're got a President that is at 'war' with the press on a daily basis. They hate him, he hates them. He's almost entirely powerless to do anything about them. It's clear that Trump would heavily restrict the media if he could, what greater proof could one possibly need of just how potent the protections for speech / press / expression are? Trump's administration has been leaking like crazy since day one, and the media has been publishing those leaks at will. The government can't do anything about it. They have no power to stop the Washington Post or NY Times from publishing such leaks.

The US is the only country on earth that can support a Reddit, Twitter, Tumblr, Wordpress or Hacker News, precisely because we're free to say all sorts of disagreeable or hateful things on most of those platforms. And if not, I can always build my own new site or platform. Even the most liberal speech supporting nations in Europe don't allow what the US does when it comes to speech areas that involve things such as religion, government and politics.

I can insult the police in the US on HN, and I won't be arrested for it. That isn't true in the UK as one example. They put people in jail for insulting the police on social media there.

I can insult the US President in any number of various ways across countless US platforms. Snoop Dogg killed him in a music video; they made his wife a stripper in another music video. You can mock-up his chopped off head and put it on the cover of a magazine, you won't go to jail for that. There are very few countries that afford you such expression luxury, even when it's detestable expression (the most important kind to protect).

Online in the US I can disagree with Islam, Christianity, Judaism, their followers, their practices, and so on, at will, in almost any manner I see fit. There are few countries where that remains true other than the US. Most of Europe now categories such as hate speech, or otherwise restricted speech, and will arrest you for it.

The reason the US dominates online platforms, is precisely because the US is the sole country where they can thrive when it comes to aggressively enshrined freedom of speech & expression. You can't build a Reddit in Europe and will never be able to. With the draconian copyright laws the EU is passing, it's only going to get that much worse.

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