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Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

bostonreview.net

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Re: Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

#11

Post by skohan »

randiantech wrote: post #5

"Neoliberalism", or the story of one of the dumbest terms used on economics. No liberals -or "libertarian" for north americans- consider itself a neoliberal. No existing bibliography talks about it, only detractors of traditional liberalism. Then why to add the neo prefix to it?

Does anyone have to personally identify with a term in order for it to be useful? I think it's quite easy to look at recent history and identify a largely top-down political/economic/philosophical movement embodied by the likes of Thatcher and Regan which has been impactful on the current state of the world. I don't see why Neoliberalism isn't a perfectly good name for it.

Re: Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

#12

Post by selflesssieve »

This article is full of strawmen fallacies. Paints with a broad brush by using "Economists" and "Economics" to mean the whole discipline.

>Economists also often get overly enamored with models that focus a narrow set of issues and identify first-best solutions in the circumscribed domain, at the expense of potential complications and adverse implications elsewhere.

Can loosely translate to: Economists like to study optimization problems whereby rigorous mathematical models conclude that to maximize one variable, other variables may be minimized.

Re: Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

#13

Post by soVeryTired »

selflesssieve wrote: post #12

This article is full of strawmen fallacies. Paints with a broad brush by using "Economists" and "Economics" to mean the whole discipline. >Economists also often get overly enamored with models that focus a narrow set of issues and identify first-best solutions in the circumscribed domain, at the expense of potential complications and adverse implications elsewhere. Can loosely translate to: Economists like to study o…

> Economists like to study optimization problems whereby rigorous mathematical models conclude that to maximize one variable, other variables may be minimized.

Thereby proving precise facts about models that are imprecise at best, and downright misleading at worst.

Re: Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

#14

Post by skohan »

selflesssieve wrote: post #12

This article is full of strawmen fallacies. Paints with a broad brush by using "Economists" and "Economics" to mean the whole discipline. >Economists also often get overly enamored with models that focus a narrow set of issues and identify first-best solutions in the circumscribed domain, at the expense of potential complications and adverse implications elsewhere. Can loosely translate to: Economists like to study o…

I read that sentence as being more about economic models failing to adequately account for externalities.

Re: Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

#15

Post by charliesharding »

"Yet too many economists believe their quantitative tools and theoretical lenses are the only ones that count as “scientific,” leading them to dismiss disciplines that rely more on qualitative analysis and verbal theorizing"

Sorry if I don't want to trust the fate of the nation's economy to someone's well intentioned verbal theorizing and 'qualitative' analysis. What could go wrong? (lol)

I thought HN liked and trusted the scientific process and quantitative research methods over verbal theorizing and hand waving.

Re: Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

#16

Post by Gimpei »

86carr wrote: post #4

Neoliberal microeconomics is just a model of markets? No model is perfect. All models are all far simpler than reality and probably perverse in some way. If they weren't they wouldn't be useful as models. Don't blame the model, blame the people that abuse it.

No model is perfect, but some models are better than others. I think it's fair to blame models that don't work very well. It's true that they are presenting neoliberalism as a boogieman. I don't even really understand what that actually translates to in econ: Chicago School perhaps. But there is a lot of disagreement on the efficiency of markets and the need for regulation in the discipline. I think a lot of recent economics research makes a good case for increased regulation in order to correct real market inefficiencies.

Re: Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

#17

Post by ajuc »

charliesharding wrote: post #15

"Yet too many economists believe their quantitative tools and theoretical lenses are the only ones that count as “scientific,” leading them to dismiss disciplines that rely more on qualitative analysis and verbal theorizing" Sorry if I don't want to trust the fate of the nation's economy to someone's well intentioned verbal theorizing and 'qualitative' analysis. What could go wrong? (lol) I thought HN liked and trust…

"More fiction is written in excel than in word".

Better not to have a model than to follow a wrong model.

Re: Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

#18

Post by selflesssieve »

soVeryTired wrote: post #13
selflesssieve wrote: post #12

This article is full of strawmen fallacies. Paints with a broad brush by using "Economists" and "Economics" to mean the whole discipline. >Economists also often get overly enamored with models that focus a narrow set of issues and identify first-best solutions in the circumscribed domain, at the expense of potential complications and adverse implications elsewhere. Can loosely translate to: Economists like to study o…

> Economists like to study optimization problems whereby rigorous mathematical models conclude that to maximize one variable, other variables may be minimized. Thereby proving precise facts about models that are imprecise at best, and downright misleading at worst.

No, the false assumption this article makes is that the models are the problem. The problem is how policy makers are influenced and advised by any inaccurate model and inability to learn quickly from it.

My point was that you can't have it all. "Inclusive Economics" whatever that means is never going to be "good enough" so it's a very easy basis for an attack on "Economics".

Re: Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

#19

Post by beat »

charliesharding wrote: post #15

"Yet too many economists believe their quantitative tools and theoretical lenses are the only ones that count as “scientific,” leading them to dismiss disciplines that rely more on qualitative analysis and verbal theorizing" Sorry if I don't want to trust the fate of the nation's economy to someone's well intentioned verbal theorizing and 'qualitative' analysis. What could go wrong? (lol) I thought HN liked and trust…

Social outcome is a political problem, not a scientific one. We should decide what we want society to look like, and use the scientifically/mathematically understood systems of economics to steer us in that direction.

I don't think the market-driven ideals of 1980s economics were intended to deliver the results we are seeing today. They would not have predicted the drastic disparities, or the insecurity of working people. Therefore, even on a scientific basis, they're kinda fails.

Re: Neoliberalism Is a Simplistic Perversion of Economics

#20

Post by blancheneige »

randiantech wrote: post #5

"Neoliberalism", or the story of one of the dumbest terms used on economics. No liberals -or "libertarian" for north americans- consider itself a neoliberal. No existing bibliography talks about it, only detractors of traditional liberalism. Then why to add the neo prefix to it?

for the same reason that you will rarely find neoconservatives describing themselves as such, despite checking all the boxes
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