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Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

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Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#81

Post by bunderbunder »

lazyjones wrote: post #76
bunderbunder wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law could include a ban on firmware updates that subsequently introduce and require sensitive data collection post-purchase. That said, I'm not sure you can really pin this down. It's probably better to just assume that any device that requires a wi-fi connection to work is phoning home until proven otherwise. And you have to assume that any device that phones home is collecting data. It's not even a secret that…

> The law could include a ban on firmware updates that subsequently introduce and require sensitive data collection post-purchase. This is IMHO a broader issue with products that receive firmware or OTA updates, it's probably legally a breach of contract already to modify products after sale and change functionality to the disadvantage of the consumer.

You mean the contracts saying that the vendor gets to do exactly that that we all sign without reading?

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#82

Post by seanalltogether »

codetrotter wrote: post #12

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning. The excuse is that you can use these things as a proxy for location. That is, if I know you are near access point X your location is probably near Y. It’s not an “excuse”, it’s a fact. If you allow an app to scan SSIDs you are allowing it to know your location. No amount of sarcasm on the part of OP is going to change that.

But this is a failure on Googles part to not have a streamlined api for detecting external devices, a feature which is becoming more and more popular with smart devices. Apple has protocols like WAC that you can conform to and be visible to an iOS user without anything special. Inside your app you hand off control to the user to identify and pair that device so that you as a developer don't need special permissions and custom code to link things up.

Our iOS app is able to run without any special prompts for the user on first run, whereas our Android app has to ask for location services with lengthy explanations before they can get past the first screen.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#83

Post by forrestthewoods »

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning. The excuse is that you can use these things as a proxy for location. That is, if I know you are near access point X your location is probably near Y.

There’s a reason Apple Maps says “enable WiFi to improve location accuracy”.

I’m incredibly annoyed that phones don’t report themselves with randomized Mac addresses. WiFi tracking is pervasive.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#84

Post by efsavage »

conesus wrote: post #34
derriz wrote: post #13

At least they acknowledged it, responded to the feedback and fixed it. Unfortunately I have a Sonos system which became effectively bricked unless I signed a new user agreement allowing the collection of data. There are no physical controls on Sonos so the system becomes useless without accepting. They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year…

If you're interested, I sell a dedicated Sonos music controller (built out of wood no less). It's available at https://turntouch.com and it's entirely open source so you don't have to worry about me taking your data and selling it. Earning money based on the initial sale is all that I want out of my users. That and props.

Seems cool, and perhaps I'm missing something, but it appears to require a closed-source app from a walled-garden app store to configure it, so it could easily be made useless if the app disappears?

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#85

Post by illegalsmile »

TuringNYC wrote: post #79
avh02 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm getting sick of cloud services like Dropbox and I'm trying to bring it all back under my roof Example: Dropbox's $99 plan used to be able to share a link with password protection, that's been conveniently moved to their $199 plan. This simply can't happen with self hosted/controlled alternatives that you control updates to.

I've found Dropbox to be notorious with this. Their business plan used to be only $150/yr (Fine Print: you pay minimum 3 seats.) That magically changed to five seats at some point and now the $150/yr suddenly shows up as $750/yr auto-renewed and almost impossible to cancel.

Is there not an alternative to Dropbox that offers better service for the same if not lower cost? I understand that they could pull the same bait and switch on you but maybe there are providers who wouldn't do that or grandfather you in.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#86

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

seanalltogether wrote: post #82
codetrotter wrote: post #12

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning. The excuse is that you can use these things as a proxy for location. That is, if I know you are near access point X your location is probably near Y. It’s not an “excuse”, it’s a fact. If you allow an app to scan SSIDs you are allowing it to know your location. No amount of sarcasm on the part of OP is going to change that.

But this is a failure on Googles part to not have a streamlined api for detecting external devices, a feature which is becoming more and more popular with smart devices. Apple has protocols like WAC that you can conform to and be visible to an iOS user without anything special. Inside your app you hand off control to the user to identify and pair that device so that you as a developer don't need special permissions a…

Google desperately wants location services enabled and will use any wedge possible to force it on. They even disable the center on my location button in the maps app even though the app knows very well where your current location is.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#87

Post by echelon »

TuringNYC wrote: post #79
avh02 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm getting sick of cloud services like Dropbox and I'm trying to bring it all back under my roof Example: Dropbox's $99 plan used to be able to share a link with password protection, that's been conveniently moved to their $199 plan. This simply can't happen with self hosted/controlled alternatives that you control updates to.

I've found Dropbox to be notorious with this. Their business plan used to be only $150/yr (Fine Print: you pay minimum 3 seats.) That magically changed to five seats at some point and now the $150/yr suddenly shows up as $750/yr auto-renewed and almost impossible to cancel.

How is it impossible to cancel? Are cloud services becoming modern equivalents of gym memberships? Do you have to fax them?

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#88

Post by creeble »

tyingq wrote: post #6

The coarse permissions and alarming text from the OS is a problem with both Android and iOS. Often, an app wants something fairly innocous, but has to ask for more, because it's grouped with other things in the same permission ask. Then, the OS message shifts all the blame with scary messages about what the app wants to do.

Indeed. Our app once required location permissions because - get this - a webkit view used for settings used jQuery, which did some kind of screen orientation thing that somehow required location be turned on from the app.

I think a jQuery update fixed it, but don't recall. It wasn't simple to track down either.

Disclosure: I work on a Sonos competitor [1] that tracks customer data purely for product improvement and is fully opt-out-able.

[1] https://www.bluesound.com

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#89

Post by conesus »

efsavage wrote: post #84
conesus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're interested, I sell a dedicated Sonos music controller (built out of wood no less). It's available at https://turntouch.com and it's entirely open source so you don't have to worry about me taking your data and selling it. Earning money based on the initial sale is all that I want out of my users. That and props.

Seems cool, and perhaps I'm missing something, but it appears to require a closed-source app from a walled-garden app store to configure it, so it could easily be made useless if the app disappears?

Check it out, 100% open source: https://github.com/samuelclay/turntouch-ios. The Mac app, the firmware, and even the CAD and CAM designs are also there. And I documented everything so you can get a peek into how it was built if you want to change the designs for yourself. http://ofbrooklyn.com/2019/01/3/building-turntouch/

Everything I build I want to last beyond myself. So beyond the source code I also write about the why for everything. That it improves sales is a nice bonus.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#90

Post by TuringNYC »

echelon wrote: post #87
TuringNYC wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found Dropbox to be notorious with this. Their business plan used to be only $150/yr (Fine Print: you pay minimum 3 seats.) That magically changed to five seats at some point and now the $150/yr suddenly shows up as $750/yr auto-renewed and almost impossible to cancel.

How is it impossible to cancel? Are cloud services becoming modern equivalents of gym memberships? Do you have to fax them?

It was a manner of speech. There was no way to get out of the 2 extra magically added seats, even though you agreed to 3, you pay for 5 because they changed their minimum seat policy. I spoke to customer service over and over and they wouldn't even point me to the agreement I signed...just the agreement on their website (the new one.)
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