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Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

shkspr.mobi

61–70 of 176 posts

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#61
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like lawmakers need to enforce warnings labels on such products: „works only with sensitive data collection“ or similar.

I prefer the EU approach where the collection and use of personal data is regulated, not merely "be warned."

What difference does it make in practice? Sonos sells their products in the EU as well, do they behave differently there?

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#62
post #13

At least they acknowledged it, responded to the feedback and fixed it. Unfortunately I have a Sonos system which became effectively bricked unless I signed a new user agreement allowing the collection of data. There are no physical controls on Sonos so the system becomes useless without accepting. They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year…

> They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year or two ago.

Would a class-action be successful in a situation like this?

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#63
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two problems with this assumption per the article: 1) the app previously worked fine without the location information 2) the app no longer works at all without location information. The only legitimate use case for location I can think of would be to pull down cable/tv/radio channel/station listings. But this shouldn't be a requirement since the user could easily manually enter in the ones they want. My guess is that…

The problem here is that they don't really want location, they just want a list of the surrounding Wifi networks, it just happens that such information is easily converted into a location, so Android requests that permission.

I don't think they even want a list. Sounds like they'd be happy with a single SSID. Perhaps passed to it the way a browser file dialog works, where the OS sees the list, the app only sees what was selected.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#65

I think Google is the culprit here. Not just for wifi scanning, but also for Bluetooth, Google demands location permissions. In last 5 years or so, I have had a Garmin, a Fitbit and now a Garmin watch. I never used to have to enable location with my first Garmin tracker untill I upgraded Android os. After that point onward all my fitness trackers now ask to enable location in order to connect to my phone.

For good reason! There's many online services where you can put in a wifi MAC and pretty much know within 100M where someone is. Yeah, the message could be made clearer about what's actually being allowed, but in the end I'm glad it's there. Maybe a generic system for when you request a permission being able to provide an explanation string or something. I know some apps made a pop-up before the prompt but I found th…

> There's many online services where you can put in a wifi MAC and pretty much know within 100M where someone is.

Somewhat ironically because Google went and made that dataset, then publicized it.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#66
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! You might be interested to know that the Turn Touch homepage starts playing audio as soon as it is opened. This was enough for me to close it and never come back, and I think this sentiment is reasonably widespread. I'm genuinely curios about the reason some people decide to add audio (or video for that matter, but audio is way worse) on autoplay. Do you enjoy when web pages you visit do it? Did you see from some…

Yikes! It's part of a hidden video that shouldn't play until you explicitly open it. What's your browser/OS? I tested on Chrome, Safari, and FF on mac as well as iOS. I also just added a muted attribute to the `video` tag so it should no longer do that even if I messed up the JS for some browser somewhere. I encourage you to try it once again to confirm.

Not only that, but the fake popup made me NOPE out of the site.

I'm not going to fight reading a bloody advert with an annoying "GIMMEE EMAIL" advert. That pattern needs to die in a fire.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#67
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes! It's part of a hidden video that shouldn't play until you explicitly open it. What's your browser/OS? I tested on Chrome, Safari, and FF on mac as well as iOS. I also just added a muted attribute to the `video` tag so it should no longer do that even if I messed up the JS for some browser somewhere. I encourage you to try it once again to confirm.

Not only that, but the fake popup made me NOPE out of the site. I'm not going to fight reading a bloody advert with an annoying "GIMMEE EMAIL" advert. That pattern needs to die in a fire.

I kinda agree in that I also dislike it. But I just disabled the exit intent pop up so you won’t see it again.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#68
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two problems with this assumption per the article: 1) the app previously worked fine without the location information 2) the app no longer works at all without location information. The only legitimate use case for location I can think of would be to pull down cable/tv/radio channel/station listings. But this shouldn't be a requirement since the user could easily manually enter in the ones they want. My guess is that…

The problem here is that they don't really want location, they just want a list of the surrounding Wifi networks, it just happens that such information is easily converted into a location, so Android requests that permission.

Android doesn't request the permission, the app does (via the app manifest) While that is the stated reason, that really isn't a legitimate reason for a remote control app to require location as it might not even work in all network scenarios. (i.e. the device in question may not be using a wifi network the phone can see/use)

Keep in mind that many things including trivial flashlight apps have a history of wanting location access. There's usually a pretext in the form of some questionable/marginal feature that's used as a justification for the permission. Often after some digging the real reason becomes apparent in the form of data collection or an included ad serving library.

For example, I have a 'smart' thermostat which has an app that requests location access. I deny it and it still works. There's at least one feature they use to justify requesting it but I suspect that if there weren't other uses (having nothing to do with benefiting me) for location data that the feature requiring location data probably wouldn't even exist.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#69
post #22

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning. The excuse is that you can use these things as a proxy for location. That is, if I know you are near access point X your location is probably near Y. It’s not an “excuse”, it’s a fact. If you allow an app to scan SSIDs you are allowing it to know your location. No amount of sarcasm on the part of OP is going to change that.

Um, no, that's not correct. SSIDs aren't tied to geographic location. The mothership might infer location by looking at the list of SSIDs and checking it against a geotagged list compiled by a mapper, but that's a completely different thing that saying if you let an app look for an SSID you are allowing to it to know your location. You might as well say that by giving a camera the ability to know the time, you are al…

SSID's pretty much ARE tied to geo, and those that aren't tied are easy to identify. The basic tech is known to both major players [1,2]. First you crowdsource as much of the data collection as you can: various apps can collect both SSID, BT, etc. sightings and report them with GPS. So you have a giant DB of locations vs network IDs. Then you tag any network ID which appears at differing locations: it's somehow mobile for whatever reason. The untagged ones are not mobile and probably dependable indications of location to within a few dozen meters. If they do move, they get tagged at your next sweep.

1. https://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-l...

2. https://xconomy.com/boston/2010/08/04/skyhook-wireless-digs-...

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#70
post #13

At least they acknowledged it, responded to the feedback and fixed it. Unfortunately I have a Sonos system which became effectively bricked unless I signed a new user agreement allowing the collection of data. There are no physical controls on Sonos so the system becomes useless without accepting. They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year…

I can't see how situations like this aren't anything but a bait and switch. You buy something, it changes out from under you.

This is why I'm getting sick of cloud services like Dropbox and I'm trying to bring it all back under my roof

Example: Dropbox's $99 plan used to be able to share a link with password protection, that's been conveniently moved to their $199 plan.

This simply can't happen with self hosted/controlled alternatives that you control updates to.

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