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EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

reuters.com

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Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#41

Post by Brakenshire »

josteink wrote: post #8

Let’s be optimistic. This will severely impact social media. It will be censored like never before, and attacking opponents by “reporting” their posts will be more effective than ever. Trolls will have a EU-sanctioned field-day. And what real users are going to bother staying on a platform like that? Maybe this will revitalize hosting of personal websites where there’s no “platform” to censor your free speech?

Would decentralized platforms be liable? Something like Mastodon still requires a host, so I assume the host would be expected to meet these standards. I suppose you could have shift towards human-curated platforms rather than platforms operating at scale.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#42

Post by oytis »

josteink wrote: post #8

Let’s be optimistic. This will severely impact social media. It will be censored like never before, and attacking opponents by “reporting” their posts will be more effective than ever. Trolls will have a EU-sanctioned field-day. And what real users are going to bother staying on a platform like that? Maybe this will revitalize hosting of personal websites where there’s no “platform” to censor your free speech?

Not gonna happen in Germany. In Germany if you own a website, you're obliged to tell the world your home address. (That is, by the way, why everyone knows where Lennart Poettering lives).

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#43

Post by aikah »

flexie wrote: post #29
beezischillin wrote: post #3

This is sad and disgusting, our speech is being limited completely unfairly and without our consent and we're being told that it's a good thing. The fact that they're trying to package it as some sort of well-deserved revenge against silicon valley big tech is just tasteless. The EU's big gripe against these companies is their tax situation, if they really wanted to change that then they'd be looking into a unified a…

Don't frame this as a free speech issue. Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more. Freedom of speech in Europe is not just an EU question, but also - and mainly - up to constitutions and legislation of the member states. So of course it varies. But there is less surveillance in Europe on what citizens say online, European media is less centralized than American, there are more par…

> Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more

It is absolutely not. That's a preposterous assumption. If it was the case then no European state could send people to prison or fine them for having an opinion, yet look at France, where insulting the president is a crime and denying "official" history has landed people in jail (I don't condone either of these, it's just about principle).

There is absolutely no equivalent to the US first amendment anywhere else on the planet.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#44

Post by wbxrs »

josteink wrote: post #8

Let’s be optimistic. This will severely impact social media. It will be censored like never before, and attacking opponents by “reporting” their posts will be more effective than ever. Trolls will have a EU-sanctioned field-day. And what real users are going to bother staying on a platform like that? Maybe this will revitalize hosting of personal websites where there’s no “platform” to censor your free speech?

>Maybe this will revitalize hosting of personal websites where there’s no “platform” to censor your free speech?

In Germany, Austria and Switzerland you are required to disclose your full name, address, telephone number and more if you publish a personal website. This makes it impossible to keep a personal and anonymous website.

That is why having platforms is important.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#45

Post by [deleted] »

aikah wrote: post #43
flexie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't frame this as a free speech issue. Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more. Freedom of speech in Europe is not just an EU question, but also - and mainly - up to constitutions and legislation of the member states. So of course it varies. But there is less surveillance in Europe on what citizens say online, European media is less centralized than American, there are more par…

> Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more It is absolutely not. That's a preposterous assumption. If it was the case then no European state could send people to prison or fine them for having an opinion, yet look at France, where insulting the president is a crime and denying "official" history has landed people in jail (I don't condone either of these, it's just about principle)…

[deleted]

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#46

Post by ddebernardy »

kretor wrote: post #36
judge2020 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take this with a grain of salt since it's their own website, but Youtube themselves say they wouldn't be able to let any content on their platform stay up even if it slightly resembled copyrighted content. Think the current Content ID system times 10. https://www.youtube.com/saveyourinternet/ https://youtube-creators.googleblog.com/2018/10/a-final-upda...

The webpage you linked is from last year I think. Article 13 has since been updated

It has been updated to something worse:

https://juliareda.eu/2019/02/eu-copyright-final-text/

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#47

Post by r_smart »

flexie wrote: post #29
beezischillin wrote: post #3

This is sad and disgusting, our speech is being limited completely unfairly and without our consent and we're being told that it's a good thing. The fact that they're trying to package it as some sort of well-deserved revenge against silicon valley big tech is just tasteless. The EU's big gripe against these companies is their tax situation, if they really wanted to change that then they'd be looking into a unified a…

Don't frame this as a free speech issue. Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more. Freedom of speech in Europe is not just an EU question, but also - and mainly - up to constitutions and legislation of the member states. So of course it varies. But there is less surveillance in Europe on what citizens say online, European media is less centralized than American, there are more par…

|Don't frame this as a free speech issue. Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more.

Short of making a call to violence, I will never hear from an authority about anything I say or post online. The same can't be said for much of Europe. In fact, didn't the EU courts just rule that criticism of Mohamed should be banned?

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#48

Post by microcolonel »

beezischillin wrote: post #3

This is sad and disgusting, our speech is being limited completely unfairly and without our consent and we're being told that it's a good thing. The fact that they're trying to package it as some sort of well-deserved revenge against silicon valley big tech is just tasteless. The EU's big gripe against these companies is their tax situation, if they really wanted to change that then they'd be looking into a unified a…

> ...completely unfairly and without our consent and we're being told that it's a good thing.

This is, more or less, the present and future of the EU on all matters. They are now trying to raise a supranational army (try to imagine what legitimate purpose that could have). They encourage member states to suppress political dissent, and wield power spitefully against those who oppose them (see all of the various cruel and malicious acts and positions EU leaders take against Britain for deigning to resist the expansion of EU powers).

The goal is quite clearly a Germanic empire ruling Europe, just a bit late because they had to pivot from their first approach.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#49

Post by duxup »

porpoisely wrote: post #16

This is what I despise about "news". If this was china or russia or venezuela, etc, the headline would be "China tightens grip on their people" or "International community concerned as China becomes more authoritarian" or "Pro freedom activists protest against China's draconian censorship". It would be spun as something more ominous than "reform". But reuters being reuters and also a major supporter of censorship, of…

I feel like headline bickering is endless.

But I also think there is a lot of difference between even draconian copyright laws.... and China, Russia, Venezuela....

Same goes for laws enacted by democratic governments who have free press, independent courts, etc.

Your comparisons seem hardly 1:1.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#50

Post by microcolonel »

dragonwriter wrote: post #14
mvanga wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to add that, in the US, it isn't primarily the constitution that protects its freedoms, but rather the structure of their government and how it's been setup for gridlock among all the parties involved (not that that property has been preserved too well of late). Antonin Scalia explained it really well in one of his appearances in front of a Senate Judiciary Committee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--…

> I wanted to add that, in the US, it isn't primarily the constitution that protects its freedoms, but rather the structure of their government and how it's been setup for gridlock among all the parties involved That protects established injustices as much as it protects established freedoms. Perhaps more, since the fundamental structure incorporates a number of injustices.

> That protects established injustices as much as it protects established freedoms. Perhaps more, since the fundamental structure incorporates a number of injustices.

Such as?

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