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Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

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Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#31

Post by jsjohnst »

shittyadmin wrote: post #19
phakding wrote: post #16

I think Google is the culprit here. Not just for wifi scanning, but also for Bluetooth, Google demands location permissions. In last 5 years or so, I have had a Garmin, a Fitbit and now a Garmin watch. I never used to have to enable location with my first Garmin tracker untill I upgraded Android os. After that point onward all my fitness trackers now ask to enable location in order to connect to my phone.

For good reason! There's many online services where you can put in a wifi MAC and pretty much know within 100M where someone is. Yeah, the message could be made clearer about what's actually being allowed, but in the end I'm glad it's there. Maybe a generic system for when you request a permission being able to provide an explanation string or something. I know some apps made a pop-up before the prompt but I found th…

> There's many online services where you can put in a wifi MAC and pretty much know within 100M where someone is.

Minor nitpick, it’s the BSSID that’s used to lookup the location. In some cases the BSSID is the same as the MAC address (usually with cheaper consumer gear), but it’s not the case with APs that are broadcasting (or have capability to broadcast) more than one SSID. As one example, think of APs that have “Home” and “Guest” separate networks.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#32

Post by VLM »

tcbawo wrote: post #17

Is there a virtualization app/service that can sit between the OS and an app that allows me to see or restrict what an application actually sees? For example I may allow it to see my public contacts rather than all contacts. Or, I may provide it with a location once rather than whenever they request it.

Some google searches for old custom roms for Android would help. I recall stuff like this in non-commercial 2.0-series android custom roms.

For a very specific example of the genre, pdroid and its numerous clones (some of which were trojans as I recall) from around 2011 seems to almost perfectly match your request.

You know you're in deep when you have to root your phone, install a custom rom, then patch the custom rom, just to limit how much you're getting spied upon.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#33

Post by _underfl0w_ »

mtgx wrote: post #26
codetrotter wrote: post #12

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning. The excuse is that you can use these things as a proxy for location. That is, if I know you are near access point X your location is probably near Y. It’s not an “excuse”, it’s a fact. If you allow an app to scan SSIDs you are allowing it to know your location. No amount of sarcasm on the part of OP is going to change that.

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning That line implies Google made a "stupid mistake" here, when to me it seems like it was very much a calculated/malicious move.

I think by this point Google is an exception to Hanlon's Razor.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#34

Post by conesus »

derriz wrote: post #13

At least they acknowledged it, responded to the feedback and fixed it. Unfortunately I have a Sonos system which became effectively bricked unless I signed a new user agreement allowing the collection of data. There are no physical controls on Sonos so the system becomes useless without accepting. They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year…

If you're interested, I sell a dedicated Sonos music controller (built out of wood no less). It's available at https://turntouch.com and it's entirely open source so you don't have to worry about me taking your data and selling it. Earning money based on the initial sale is all that I want out of my users. That and props.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#35

Post by ryanbrunner »

mtgx wrote: post #26
codetrotter wrote: post #12

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning. The excuse is that you can use these things as a proxy for location. That is, if I know you are near access point X your location is probably near Y. It’s not an “excuse”, it’s a fact. If you allow an app to scan SSIDs you are allowing it to know your location. No amount of sarcasm on the part of OP is going to change that.

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning That line implies Google made a "stupid mistake" here, when to me it seems like it was very much a calculated/malicious move.

I'm failing to understand how it would be malicious - without this permission setting apps would absolutely be able to pinpoint a user's location. I can sort of agree that more fine-grained permissions could be helpful, but asking for something like "Allow this app to access Wifi signals" doesn't convey the privacy risk to the user, and so putting it under location makes sense to me.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#36

Post by ryanbrunner »

tyingq wrote: post #6

The coarse permissions and alarming text from the OS is a problem with both Android and iOS. Often, an app wants something fairly innocous, but has to ask for more, because it's grouped with other things in the same permission ask. Then, the OS message shifts all the blame with scary messages about what the app wants to do.

This can easily be solved by app developers though. Add a screen before the permission explaining why you want that particular permission, and limit asking permissions to the point that you need to use them rather than the first time the app starts up.

Too many apps ask for permission immediately without any context as to why they're doing it.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#37

Post by lwkl »

phakding wrote: post #16

I think Google is the culprit here. Not just for wifi scanning, but also for Bluetooth, Google demands location permissions. In last 5 years or so, I have had a Garmin, a Fitbit and now a Garmin watch. I never used to have to enable location with my first Garmin tracker untill I upgraded Android os. After that point onward all my fitness trackers now ask to enable location in order to connect to my phone.

Why does the app need Bluetooth or WiFi scanning permissions? Can't you handle the pairing in the OS and allow the app to use an already established connection?

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#38

Post by icebraining »

jfnixon wrote: post #22
codetrotter wrote: post #12

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning. The excuse is that you can use these things as a proxy for location. That is, if I know you are near access point X your location is probably near Y. It’s not an “excuse”, it’s a fact. If you allow an app to scan SSIDs you are allowing it to know your location. No amount of sarcasm on the part of OP is going to change that.

Um, no, that's not correct. SSIDs aren't tied to geographic location. The mothership might infer location by looking at the list of SSIDs and checking it against a geotagged list compiled by a mapper, but that's a completely different thing that saying if you let an app look for an SSID you are allowing to it to know your location. You might as well say that by giving a camera the ability to know the time, you are al…

By that reasoning, nothing is; even GPS signals aren't tied to geographic locations, you infer it based on timing calculations.

BSSIDs can be easily mapped to a location using free and readily-available services. They are as good as most geolocation mechanisms you can get.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#39

Post by moring »

tyingq wrote: post #6

The coarse permissions and alarming text from the OS is a problem with both Android and iOS. Often, an app wants something fairly innocous, but has to ask for more, because it's grouped with other things in the same permission ask. Then, the OS message shifts all the blame with scary messages about what the app wants to do.

This is a pet peeve of mine with Android (don't know about iOS). Another example:

Browser wants to download a file, so I have to give carte blanche permission to access all my files. Why can't I just give permission to place new files with app-supplied content, i.e. no reading of existing files, no overwriting / deleting of existing files, and OS-managed name collision resolution?

The same applies to the camera app. And no, the camera app does not need to read my files to display a gallery of photos taken. The gallery app already does that, and Android is perfectly capable to re-using an activity (via intent) of the gallery app as part of the camera app without the latter gaining any permissions.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#40

Post by cr1895 »

lazyjones wrote: post #21
derriz wrote: post #13

At least they acknowledged it, responded to the feedback and fixed it. Unfortunately I have a Sonos system which became effectively bricked unless I signed a new user agreement allowing the collection of data. There are no physical controls on Sonos so the system becomes useless without accepting. They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year…

Sounds like lawmakers need to enforce warnings labels on such products: „works only with sensitive data collection“ or similar.

I prefer the EU approach where the collection and use of personal data is regulated, not merely "be warned."
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