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COI – Chat Over IMAP

coi-dev.org

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Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#21

Post by qrbLPHiKpiux »

kelnage wrote: post #10

"Last but not least, every COI client app can offer a variety of end to end encryption options to keep your communication absolutely private." The fact I had to read quite so far down the page to find this snippet emphasises to me how unimportant the developers of this protocol see E2E encryption to be :( And leaving it to the client seems like a terrible idea, especially if there are options, as then surely it will…

I thought you can’t encrypt data at rest on an imap server? Apple even says this in their security guide... right?

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#23

Post by renholder »

Aeolun wrote: post #14
kelnage wrote: post #10

"Last but not least, every COI client app can offer a variety of end to end encryption options to keep your communication absolutely private." The fact I had to read quite so far down the page to find this snippet emphasises to me how unimportant the developers of this protocol see E2E encryption to be :( And leaving it to the client seems like a terrible idea, especially if there are options, as then surely it will…

I don’t really understand why or how this is different from your current trust model around email...?

I think that was OP's point?

To tout it as an alternative, or "breaking free" of WhatsApp, is to discredit one of the pivotal reasons that people use WhatsApp, which is E2E encryption.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#24

Post by adrianN »

renholder wrote: post #23
Aeolun wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really understand why or how this is different from your current trust model around email...?

I think that was OP's point? To tout it as an alternative, or "breaking free" of WhatsApp, is to discredit one of the pivotal reasons that people use WhatsApp, which is E2E encryption.

I think most people who use WhatsApp don't even know what E2E encryption is and use it only because their peers are using it.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#25

Post by Mailtemi »

Tharkun wrote: post #19
Mailtemi wrote: post #8

It is very difficult to build a decent email client with IMAP. So initially thought it is a no-sense. But after reading the while proposition seem very intriguing. Although it is based on email adoption will be very difficult.

> It is very difficult to build a decent email client with IMAP Why do you say that? I've implemented a couple of embedded IMAP clients over the years and I always found it pretty OK to work with?

I'm implementing mobile client too :) To sync all mailboxes, not just Inbox need a lot of commands (request/response). Which add a lot of latency which is not very user-friendly on mobile. For example currently, I' exploring JMAP and for the same amount of functionally, the API calls a just 1/10th of what needed with IMAP.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#26

Post by supermatt »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #7

What of network effect? And in today's fragmented, firewalled and NATed internet, what of ! --dport 80,443 -j DROP?

it works over regular smtp and imap, via your usual relays and email servers, etc. If you can send and receive email, then I guess it should work fine.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#27

Post by supermatt »

dmacvicar wrote: post #22

How is this different from https://delta.chat ?

Primarily I guess this is an open specification, whereas deltachat is a closed app? sounds like the same underlying principle to me though. Apparently in the future there would be optional extensions on IMAP servers to make things more efficient.

EDIT: looks like delta.chat is open source https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-desktop

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#28

Post by elvecinodeabajo »

I really like the idea, but I prefer dedicated self-hosted services like Matrix. You can run a suspicious Matrix instance, but I think privacy falls away as you talk to any Gmail user via CoI.

"With XMPP and Matrix.org -based services you would still need to convince everyone to join your new network. Easy in theory, very complex in practice!"

I don't find that so problematic. People just needs to see a bit the inner workings to feel a bit comfortable and give it a chance.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#29

Post by Arathorn »

> With XMPP and Matrix.org -based services you would still need to convince everyone to join your new network. Easy in theory, very complex in practice!

I think they missed the the bit where Matrix is called Matrix because it bridges (matrixes) the existing networks (Slack, IRC, Telegram, Discord, XMPP, etc) in, rather than needing to convince everyone to join. But no matter, we'll just provide a COI bridge if this takes off :)

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#30

Post by Arnt »

qrbLPHiKpiux wrote: post #21
kelnage wrote: post #10

"Last but not least, every COI client app can offer a variety of end to end encryption options to keep your communication absolutely private." The fact I had to read quite so far down the page to find this snippet emphasises to me how unimportant the developers of this protocol see E2E encryption to be :( And leaving it to the client seems like a terrible idea, especially if there are options, as then surely it will…

I thought you can’t encrypt data at rest on an imap server? Apple even says this in their security guide... right?

You can in theory. But you have to choose: Either your data is encrypted or it's searchable. So in practice you prefer searchability.

Someone will probably say something about homomorphic encryption. Not deployed AFAIK, and deploying will be difficult if you want to ensure that you can search your encrypted mail but others cannot.

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