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Stop Saying, ‘We Take Your Privacy and Security Seriously’

techcrunch.com

21–30 of 112 posts

Re: Stop Saying, ‘We Take Your Privacy and Security Seriously’

#21

A question: What is privacy issue exactly about ? I see regular posts on HN about it. Is it about storing user-data on my end or sharing the user-data with third party or not taking the user consent. P.S. - Trying to understand the root cause because I work with a startup building SAAS and would like to avoid such mistakes.

Mostly its because of what they (as in advertisers and platforms that display ads and take data) can do with that data once they have it. They can figure out if you're moving house, suddenly interested in a new hobby, pregnant, or emotionally unstable and thus more vulnerable to suggestion. Once they have statistically guessed at these possibilities, "advertisers" can target you through social media platforms and google ads. They can try and nudge you at just the right moment, many people will be unaffected, but the advertiser hopes enough will be nudged into buying something, voting differently, or otherwise changing behaviour to get good bang for their buck.

Re: Stop Saying, ‘We Take Your Privacy and Security Seriously’

#22
post #13

Also stop saying "Before you go further..." we need to share your data with tens of corporations. /s Note to non-EU users: Techcrunch is completely blocking the page with a popup asking me to share my location and behavioral data (for advertising purposes) with a probably very long list of companies (something called "Oath" family). The logos shown are for Yahoo, Aol, Autoblog, Huffpost and Engadget. Nah. I'll skip a…

Oath has one of the more nagging GDPR pop-ups. I like Slashdot, they at least give an opt-out option to access the content. On TC you are either opting-in or forbidden to access. And it's not like a technical necessity either. My company, ProcessOne, has a Wordpress blog that doesn't set any cookies or local storage. It uses Google Analytics and internal WP stats. But they are properly configured to not track, just m…

> On TC you are either opting-in or forbidden to access.

And it remains to be seen whether that is legal.

Re: Stop Saying, ‘We Take Your Privacy and Security Seriously’

#23

A question: What is privacy issue exactly about ? I see regular posts on HN about it. Is it about storing user-data on my end or sharing the user-data with third party or not taking the user consent. P.S. - Trying to understand the root cause because I work with a startup building SAAS and would like to avoid such mistakes.

All of these.

Do not store user data on your end unless you absolutely have to.

Do not give user data to third parties unless you absolutely have to.

Do not do anything without the user explicitly or implicitly consenting to it.

Example: You have to momentarily store the users IP address in order to serve their request for a website. Remove the IP address as soon as you served their request, because you don’t absolutely need it any more.

Example: You have to hand user data over to your ISP (and their ISP etc) in order to serve their request for a website. Do not hand this data over to Facebook, Google, your mum or anybody else, because you don’t absolutely need to.

Example: If someone is visiting your website, it is fair to assume implicit consent to the above two bits. However, if you provide a service where they can store data on your server (e.g. Dropbox), you should inform the user on how the data is stored so that they can sensibly consent to this (or not). So if you’re storing data unencrypted, inform the user that this is the case. If you’re storing data in your mum’s basement, inform the user that this is the case. If you’re storing data in some country with strange laws, inform the user that this is the case.

Re: Stop Saying, ‘We Take Your Privacy and Security Seriously’

#24
post #4
post #2

Say it, when you do. Say: We take your Privacy and Security seriously that is why we won’t ever store a tracking cookie on your machine. If you still want to support us by different means, click here Anybody who takes your privacy seriously won’t even have to ask for consent, because there is nothing to ask for

Tracking cookies provide incommensurable value to site owners for improving the quality of their web properties, which ultimately benefits users. Example abound: finding out where people are the most frustrated (high exit rates), what content drives the most interest (page views), what content is missing or inaccurate (high bounce rate and low visit duration for visitors coming from Google), how they are using the si…

Or you could, you know, ask.

I feel like people have some kind of allergic reaction to sitting down with people and actually getting a person's perspective. It's slow. It takes time. It costs money. But you know, UX professionals do this. In fact, product designers do this.

I think the model where we'll just watch everyone all the time and treat them like lab rats and that somehow the "data" is going to give us insights is a) creepy b) misleading and c) lazy.

Can you imagine if your toaster (company) watched your entire daily routine in order to "optimize" it? Fffuuu....

Re: Stop Saying, ‘We Take Your Privacy and Security Seriously’

#26
post #4
post #2

Say it, when you do. Say: We take your Privacy and Security seriously that is why we won’t ever store a tracking cookie on your machine. If you still want to support us by different means, click here Anybody who takes your privacy seriously won’t even have to ask for consent, because there is nothing to ask for

Tracking cookies provide incommensurable value to site owners for improving the quality of their web properties, which ultimately benefits users. Example abound: finding out where people are the most frustrated (high exit rates), what content drives the most interest (page views), what content is missing or inaccurate (high bounce rate and low visit duration for visitors coming from Google), how they are using the si…

I'm way more radical, I just look at what I'm making.

It's kinda like if someone were to survey their audience before a concert on what they should play, that wouldn't lead to better art. Have you ever seen a youtuber talk about how they would prefer to make videos about X, but the audience wants Y, so they're half-assing this other thing instead? Not only does this not lead to improvement, I think the major improvement would be to remove all things produced in such a extrinsicially motivated way, and replace them with nothing.

> Your stuff will start to puff up. Your paragraphs will start to get rotund with all the things you could say if you really wanted, but you can only hint. That's bad. It's bad intellectually and I think it's bad morally. It means that you become.. your contract is no longer with your readers. What I try and do, and the reason I write in longhand and write in isolation, is to say "The only person I have a deal with is the person who might read this. And I'll give them my best, and I don't care what the editor thinks, the advertising department thinks, friends and colleagues think." You try and live, as it were, as if none of these people counted. "What's the best account I can give for customers of this." Most of Washington punditry is nothing of the kind, it's... private letters written to other pundits and appearing in public space.

-- Christopher Hitchens, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsvq4PYdt40&t=35m46s

Say what you would say even if the whole world was against it. I don't live by that all the time either, but I'd rather fall short of that motto than live up to something easy and pointless.

Sure, when I see a page has a lot of hits, and I look at it and think I was being a bit lazy and people who search for that deserve better, I work on it some. If someone told me that the site doesn't work in a certain browser, I would try to fix it if easily possible, and so on. Just like an artist wouldn't say "I don't care, I only care about my music" when the venue they're playing at has no roads leading to it, and no electricity. But that goes without saying, for me that's like a painter making sure their canvas is okay.

This idea that I need to know much more, stuff like which path on the site most people are taking... no. I'm all for other people doing it, as long as privacy basics are respected, but the idea that everybody needs this to make something of quality, that I absolutely protest.

Show me one great thing that was produced that way, by someone or a group just following what people want (which is not the same as people working together as thinking individuals), just one? I can probably easily find you lots that were produced against the violent resistance of contemporaries, or even discovered as treasures of humanity posthumously.

Going just by what is the most popular, I would have ended up a Harry Potter fan rather than an Hannah Arendt fan. I would be watching SNL, instead of missing Bill Hicks. I would probably still care about movies and games instead of reading books and listening to music of the 20th century and realizing just how little value and depth what we currently accept as state of the art even has. I can't even imagine what a wasteland my mind would be if I had followed the masses rather than my instincts at every turn.

The biggest sites we know that currenly optimize for people staying long on pages prove my point so much, I had to avoid that to even get any opportunity to rant. Google search results that get worse, or Youtube and Facebook which are infamous for promoting low-quality or outright toxic and deceptive things that increase engagement. Or Amazon with fake reviews, and so on. It's not working. Just like the idea of ranking comments by clicking buttons to improve the quality of discussions doesn't really work and is much more useful for abuse than use.

Last but not least, I'd rather see a website where I hate every aspect of it, but that was made by a real person with real thoughts in their head, than anything else. Play from your heart, not from your analytics package and what you think the numbers mean.

Re: Stop Saying, ‘We Take Your Privacy and Security Seriously’

#27

Also stop saying "Before you go further..." we need to share your data with tens of corporations. /s Note to non-EU users: Techcrunch is completely blocking the page with a popup asking me to share my location and behavioral data (for advertising purposes) with a probably very long list of companies (something called "Oath" family). The logos shown are for Yahoo, Aol, Autoblog, Huffpost and Engadget. Nah. I'll skip a…

The Oath websites and Medium are on my mental blacklists of sites I simply don’t bother with. The content isn’t good enough to care. It does mean I hit comment threads like this and can’t read the article. Oh well, I’m trying to reduce my internet time anyway.

Re: Stop Saying, ‘We Take Your Privacy and Security Seriously’

#28

A question: What is privacy issue exactly about ? I see regular posts on HN about it. Is it about storing user-data on my end or sharing the user-data with third party or not taking the user consent. P.S. - Trying to understand the root cause because I work with a startup building SAAS and would like to avoid such mistakes.

All of these. Do not store user data on your end unless you absolutely have to. Do not give user data to third parties unless you absolutely have to. Do not do anything without the user explicitly or implicitly consenting to it. Example: You have to momentarily store the users IP address in order to serve their request for a website. Remove the IP address as soon as you served their request, because you don’t absolut…

To make the product better, we require information about how the user interacts with it.

What about if we:

1. Save data anonymously. OR 2. If we have to save some data, we give them an option to access what we have saved. something like 'Data Settings'.

Re: Stop Saying, ‘We Take Your Privacy and Security Seriously’

#29
post #4
post #2

Say it, when you do. Say: We take your Privacy and Security seriously that is why we won’t ever store a tracking cookie on your machine. If you still want to support us by different means, click here Anybody who takes your privacy seriously won’t even have to ask for consent, because there is nothing to ask for

Tracking cookies provide incommensurable value to site owners for improving the quality of their web properties, which ultimately benefits users. Example abound: finding out where people are the most frustrated (high exit rates), what content drives the most interest (page views), what content is missing or inaccurate (high bounce rate and low visit duration for visitors coming from Google), how they are using the si…

I wish there was a mechanism that allowed you to let the browser voluntarily tell which page referred you...

Re: Stop Saying, ‘We Take Your Privacy and Security Seriously’

#30

Also stop saying "Before you go further..." we need to share your data with tens of corporations. /s Note to non-EU users: Techcrunch is completely blocking the page with a popup asking me to share my location and behavioral data (for advertising purposes) with a probably very long list of companies (something called "Oath" family). The logos shown are for Yahoo, Aol, Autoblog, Huffpost and Engadget. Nah. I'll skip a…

I just realised I had been reading "Oath" as "OAuth" - not that I am aware of visiting the site but I wonder if they chose that name to get some additional credibility?
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