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“Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

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Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can build algorithms to avoid racial bias, with awareness and effort. How confident are you we can train cops to do the same? How confident are you that we can build algorithms to do that? You can't just flatten the probability distribution based on race when many of the legitimate factors are correlated with it, any more than you could do so for gender or age or nationality. Unless you want an absurd false posi…

I believe the article clarifies that this system (much like its sibling, DNA database mining) is used to narrow the search space so that traditional (and comparatively more expensive) sleuthing can find the evidence needed for a conviction. The dragnet is, in a sense, more ruling people out than ruling people in.

> I believe the article clarifies that this system (much like its sibling, DNA database mining) is used to narrow the search space so that traditional (and comparatively more expensive) sleuthing can find the evidence needed for a conviction.

Which is exactly the problem. The system spits out a list of 25 names, 20 of them have an alibi and only one of the remaining five had the capacity to commit the crime. So you've got your man, all you have to do is dig up some evidence. Unless the true perpetrator wasn't on the original list to begin with, or fabricated an alibi, in which case you're attempting to convict an innocent person. Which huge databases are ideal for doing because it's very easy to use selection bias to raise the apparent probability of random events.

It's like the reverse pyramid scheme. You choose a stock and send brochures to a million people telling half it will go up and half it will go down. Then it goes up or down and next week you send brochures to the half million people you sent the accurate prediction to last week, telling half of them that a different stock will go up and the other half that it will go down. By the end of ten weeks you have about a thousand people who think you can predict the market when all you've really done is to start with a large pool.

"99.9% accurate" in a city of two million means that 99.95% of the matches are false positives.

You can't start with a list of names and then look for evidence it was them. You have to start with the evidence and see who it points to.

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll go back even further. Remember when police used honey pot wifi access points at the DAPL protests? Remember the hippie's getting beat at occupy? You don't need to lecture me. I'm with you. In fact, I participated in the Restore the 4th protests just after the Snowden leaks. What I'm saying is let's not cry wolf here. Yes surveillance technology can be used to set up a system of oppression. So can many other stat…

> That is why we have a system of courts and warrants and checks and balances etc. The problem is that those are worth nothing if judges and courts do not understand (or don't want to) the full consequences of carelessly signing those warrants. In Germany we have some local courts which are "famous" for being very near to the police and will often rule against your personal freedom or accept half-cooked "evidence" fr…

Whose civil liberties are hurt by a few blocks of cell phone information after a crime has occurred?

The crime itself is a violation of civil liberties.

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, you're gaslighting. The procedure creates a means that can be exploited for fishing expeditions. The details of exploitability have been well enumerated in previously given literary examples. Every infrastructural/institutional mechanism we implement or allow to be implemented is an undeniable weapon . Just as some people may be nervous when others do something perfectly legal (walking around with a fi…

Claiming I'm gaslighting is absurd and blatant rhetoric. It is reasonable for me to ask how the state can exploit the system in such a way which somehow defeats or undermines the checks on exploitation.

You're asking the previous poster to answer a question he has already sufficiently answered. Rhetoric or not, it's the truth.

While you may consider the literary sources he pulled from to be "BS", we've had more than enough precedent implemented in the last 30 years that these literary "cautionary" tales are instead of being used as a warning to not encroach on civil rights, are instead being viewed as instruction manuals for how to do so.

I.e. Semantic/linguistic engineering, appeals to nationalism, declaration of 'war' against nebulous but never seeming to disappear enemies, silencing or suppression of journalism/access to information, and engineering of artificial socioeconomic classes.

If you haven't read the books, and are just tired of seeing people talk about them, then I recommend you read them and take them to heart.

If you have read them, and yet still consider them irrelevant, then I can only question your motives/ position and whether it is fundamentally dependent on slowly eroding others right to be free of surveillance, because in no way whatsoever does the implementation details of the government in the United States proof its' citizens against these forces which are very actively employed by parties foreign and domestic.

I don't like to assume malice, but I find it absolutely mind boggling that anyone paying enough attention could not recognize this in good faith. It's just too painfully obvious.

So, if you truly aren't gaslighting, please enlighten me as to how you're trying to do anything but undermine actually valid concerns through rhetorically underhanded means? Because I'm honestly not seeing it.

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is why we have a system of courts and warrants and checks and balances etc. The problem is that those are worth nothing if judges and courts do not understand (or don't want to) the full consequences of carelessly signing those warrants. In Germany we have some local courts which are "famous" for being very near to the police and will often rule against your personal freedom or accept half-cooked "evidence" fr…

Whose civil liberties are hurt by a few blocks of cell phone information after a crime has occurred? The crime itself is a violation of civil liberties.

See, your mindset is part of the problem.

I'm not in any way suspicious, just because I have been around the area where a crime has happened. As we know those blocks can be quite large so you will have lots of "suspects" whose only connection to the crime is being around a crime scene.

Then you question all of them and hope that something sticks with one of them. That is unprofessional and will lead to lots of problems once your neighbours get to know that you are suspicious of $crime because you were near $location.

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whose civil liberties are hurt by a few blocks of cell phone information after a crime has occurred? The crime itself is a violation of civil liberties.

See, your mindset is part of the problem. I'm not in any way suspicious, just because I have been around the area where a crime has happened. As we know those blocks can be quite large so you will have lots of "suspects" whose only connection to the crime is being around a crime scene. Then you question all of them and hope that something sticks with one of them. That is unprofessional and will lead to lots of proble…

You question them, ask if they saw anything unusual, ask if they saw anybody matching a suspect's description, spot a known perp, spot somebody staking out the place hours before the crime...

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, your mindset is part of the problem. I'm not in any way suspicious, just because I have been around the area where a crime has happened. As we know those blocks can be quite large so you will have lots of "suspects" whose only connection to the crime is being around a crime scene. Then you question all of them and hope that something sticks with one of them. That is unprofessional and will lead to lots of proble…

You question them, ask if they saw anything unusual, ask if they saw anybody matching a suspect's description, spot a known perp, spot somebody staking out the place hours before the crime...

I don't want to talk to police just because I was near. Now what. More suspicious? Less suspicious?
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