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How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

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Re: How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

#41
post #7

The nba clearly wants the refs to be bent, it's a requirement. They actively encourage seeing it the home teams way, favouring the big stars and call it to keep it close as this is all good for marketing. The question is not whether the refs are bent it's merely who is paying them to be so. I doubt anyone thinks the nba refs honestly try to enforce the rules with an even hand. Do any adults think this? NBA is a mix o…

As much as I love a good conspiracy theory, refs are biased in favor of home teams in EVERY sport: http://thefixisin.net/homefield.html

Then you never heard of Scott Foster, who is the usual ref when the road team needs to win an important playoff game.

Re: How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

#42
post #4
post #2

I would love to get more people's opinions on if this is still happening in the NBA and to what extent. Naturally, I would assume that this rarely happens still if ever. Modern methods of oversight and statistical methods ought to be enough to ensure such things don’t happen. The NBA has a vested interest in maintaining the legitimacy of the league and thus are naturally inclined to root out any kind of cheating or i…

This reddit thread definitely has me suspicious about current referee Scott Foster. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/asciqn/serious_can_we_...

Scott Foster is the worst referee for more than a decade. Even in 2007 when the absurd number of phonecalls with Donaghy came out and most players protested on his absurd calling nothing happened. The NBA really needs those refs to fix games for the most important markets (LA, NY, Chicago).

Re: How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

#43
post #31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that simple and I don't see why it's a given that refs are bent. There is far more money at stake in maintaining the legitimacy of the the NBA (player salaries, tv deals, team valuations - all of these easily trump all the money made off of betting). Wouldn't that money fight a lot harder than any bent refs in order to fight corruption and maintain the legitimacy of the NBA? If a bigger story about…

This isn't a ref throwing games for kickbacks, but it's surprising that nowhere in this thread has anyone mentioned the most blatant game-fixing in league history, which was the 1984 Lakers-Celtics finals. In this series, the league thought their predominantly-White fanbase needed to see Larry Bird (who is White) win the series. (Spoiler alert: Celtics won in 7). Some of the highlights (lowlights?) of Magic Johnson b…

Former competitive basketball player here, still play pickup regularly. "Nobody who has ever played even semicompetitive organized basketball could mistake this for an honest performance" is blatant hyperbole.

I could not possibly disagree with you more re: 1984 Lakers/Celtics, and I'm a huge Lakers fan who'd love to believe they were really the better team. I'm not going to bother to click on the video, but I'm sure you're referring to Magic dribbling the clock out at the end of game 2, and throwing the ball away at the end of game 4? These are called mistakes, and they get made all the time. Steph Curry threw the ball away similarly with a needless behind the back pass in game 7 2016, almost exactly the same as Magic's game 4 (although with a bit more time left in the game). JR Smith utterly forgot what the score was at the end of Game 1 last year and did exactly the same thing as Magic in 1984 game 2. These examples are just from the past few years, there are countless others. I'll also point out those 2 examples are both from the NBA finals. If you just want examples of professional players throwing bad passes resulting in turnovers or dribbling too long resulting in time running out, the former happens about ~10 times in every single NBA game, the latter happens a couple of times per week during the regular season.

You're talking about the highest pressure situation in the sport, players make mistakes. You are sorely underestimating the competitiveness of these athletes. I defy you to watch any interview Magic gave in the 80s and to this present day about the 84 finals, and still argue that he threw the series on purpose. His first NBA finals matchup with Larry Bird, who had been his rival for 5 years at that point, going back to their college careers? Either he's the the world's greatest actor, or that loss emotionally and mentally devastated him for a year until he got redemption in 85.

You say the league needed the white fanbase's team to win, and it is absolutely true there was a huge racial component to the Lakers/Celtics rivalry in the 80s. How do you then explain the 85 and 87 finals? I consider myself pretty knowledgable about NBA history dating back to the NBA/ABA merger, and to be blunt your comments sound very uninformed.

Re: How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

#44

This is a messed up story, but the idea that the NBA is rigged is patently ridiculous. The refs are humans and are biased to crowd noise, and you can bet it harder to stand up to LeBron James screaming at you than Quinn Cook. What evidence is there that they "actively encourage seeing it the home teams way?" What if a huge star is on the road, what's the call there? Of course they want the bigger media markets to do…

He wasn't turning donkeys into race horses. He was tampering with the spread.

Just calling or not calling traveling, say 3 or 4 times and calling or not calling charging a couple times and you're easily looking at nearly a 10point swing. Lebron doesn't have to lose, just not win by 15 points...

Re: How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

#45
post #30
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that simple and I don't see why it's a given that refs are bent. There is far more money at stake in maintaining the legitimacy of the the NBA (player salaries, tv deals, team valuations - all of these easily trump all the money made off of betting). Wouldn't that money fight a lot harder than any bent refs in order to fight corruption and maintain the legitimacy of the NBA? If a bigger story about…

If you've watched any NBA in the past decade you can see a trend of calling fouls against teams that are winning too heavily against favorites. It's not hard.

> If you've watched any NBA in the past decade you can see a trend of calling fouls against teams that are winning too heavily against favorites. It's not hard.

This should be fairly easy to test with play-by-play data[0]. I don't have time to do it just this moment, but I may give it a stab later.

[0] https://eightthirtyfour.com/data

Re: How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

#46
post #43
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a ref throwing games for kickbacks, but it's surprising that nowhere in this thread has anyone mentioned the most blatant game-fixing in league history, which was the 1984 Lakers-Celtics finals. In this series, the league thought their predominantly-White fanbase needed to see Larry Bird (who is White) win the series. (Spoiler alert: Celtics won in 7). Some of the highlights (lowlights?) of Magic Johnson b…

Former competitive basketball player here, still play pickup regularly. "Nobody who has ever played even semicompetitive organized basketball could mistake this for an honest performance" is blatant hyperbole. I could not possibly disagree with you more re: 1984 Lakers/Celtics, and I'm a huge Lakers fan who'd love to believe they were really the better team. I'm not going to bother to click on the video, but I'm sure…

What is a "competitive basketball player"? Did you play professionally? Or were you just really competitive when you played ball? :p

Re: How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

#47

If the calls are so subjective that one can't tell the difference between a ref accidentally being way off and on purpose being way off, then maybe your sport/rules are the problem when being way off is either excusable or indeterminable. (in the NBA and some other sports, you can basically call a foul every play)

Game 3 of the NBA Finals in 2008 was pretty darn obvious. Anyone who watched that game had to have known that the game was fixed.

http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3436401

“The Lakers attempted 40 free throws to the Kings' 25 in that game, and Los Angeles made 21 of 27 from the line while Sacramento converted 7 of 9 in the fourth quarter alone.

In addition, a foul was called against Mike Bibby of the Kings after he was shoved and elbowed by Kobe Bryant, denying the Kings an opportunity to try for a tying basket. Also in that game, Kings centers Vlade Divac and Scot Pollard fouled out, and Kings coach Rick Adelman was highly critical of the officiating afterward.”

It’s actually worse than that. Bryant drove into Bibby, committing an obvious offensive foul with an elbow to the nose which gave Bibby a nosebleed. Bibby was called for a personal foul for his nose fouling Kobe in the elbow.

Re: How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

#48

If the calls are so subjective that one can't tell the difference between a ref accidentally being way off and on purpose being way off, then maybe your sport/rules are the problem when being way off is either excusable or indeterminable. (in the NBA and some other sports, you can basically call a foul every play)

Game 3 of the NBA Finals in 2008 was pretty darn obvious. Anyone who watched that game had to have known that the game was fixed. http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3436401 “The Lakers attempted 40 free throws to the Kings' 25 in that game, and Los Angeles made 21 of 27 from the line while Sacramento converted 7 of 9 in the fourth quarter alone. In addition, a foul was called against Mike Bibby of the Kings after…

I think you mean 2002 not 2008. And yeah that game sure did seem skewed in the lakers favor.

Re: How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

#49

If the calls are so subjective that one can't tell the difference between a ref accidentally being way off and on purpose being way off, then maybe your sport/rules are the problem when being way off is either excusable or indeterminable. (in the NBA and some other sports, you can basically call a foul every play)

I would propose doing away with refs entirely, like in Ultimate Frisbee. This would entail pretty radical changes to professional sports, but why not.

At the highest level of play (and pay), contestants should be able to fiercely compete under principles of fairness and cooperation instead of establishing the current culture of flopping, doping and "off the field issues".

Re: How Former Ref Tim Donaghy Conspired to Fix NBA Games

#50
post #45
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've watched any NBA in the past decade you can see a trend of calling fouls against teams that are winning too heavily against favorites. It's not hard.

> If you've watched any NBA in the past decade you can see a trend of calling fouls against teams that are winning too heavily against favorites. It's not hard. This should be fairly easy to test with play-by-play data[0]. I don't have time to do it just this moment, but I may give it a stab later. [0] https://eightthirtyfour.com/data

I am sure such a study would be interesting to a wide audience.
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