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Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

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Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#91

Post by DelightOne »

vanderZwan wrote: post #72
DelightOne wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a good interface you do not have to know the implementation. But the implementations here are leaking hard since everybody can and does implement the directive differently, so you can't deal with the interface but you rather have to deal with each implementation separately! So sadly no interface at all.

Actually, the analogy does apply in the general to way the EU works, and your explanation is the exact opposite of how it usually works. The general rule of thumb is "as long as you meet the EU criteria, your product/service/etc is legal in all EU states" , removing the need for figuring out red tape for each individual country. So if you have, say, a perfume that you want to sell, then as long as you follow the EU r…

And if you accidentally break a law because some countries did more than the directive?

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#92

Post by kosievdmerwe »

mattmanser wrote: post #86
isostatic wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the listed countries, 6 of the 8 - Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Sweden, Estonia and Denmark - are all 1 constituency countries, so the MEPs represent the entire country MEPs may well decide different things to the government though, just as the U.S. House could have a different view to the Senate.

What are you talking about? The Netherlands alone has 26 MEPs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_(European_Parlia...

As a guess, the MEPs are divided proportionally to parties based on the vote total of the entire country. Rather than say, splitting the country up into chunks and having each chunk selecting an MEP.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#93

Post by isostatic »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #68
isostatic wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the listed countries, 6 of the 8 - Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Sweden, Estonia and Denmark - are all 1 constituency countries, so the MEPs represent the entire country MEPs may well decide different things to the government though, just as the U.S. House could have a different view to the Senate.

Proportional representation. The MEPs don't represent the entire country, they represent the specific people who voted for them. The fundamental principle of who people represent under PR is very different from FPTP. Under FTPT, the people living in a certain area vote for a "winner", who then represents the entire area. If 51% of the people vote for candidate A, and 49% vote for candidate B, then the wishes of 49% o…

That’s not how it works. The 9 MEPs in my constituency all represent me despite me not voting for any of them.

However like in FPTP they are representitives, they aren’t delegates.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#94

Post by isostatic »

mattmanser wrote: post #86
isostatic wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the listed countries, 6 of the 8 - Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Sweden, Estonia and Denmark - are all 1 constituency countries, so the MEPs represent the entire country MEPs may well decide different things to the government though, just as the U.S. House could have a different view to the Senate.

What are you talking about? The Netherlands alone has 26 MEPs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_(European_Parlia...

A single constituency, that represent everyone in the Netherlands regardless if they were eligible to vote, let alone if they voted for X

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#95

Post by lrem »

DelightOne wrote: post #11
Someone wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_on_Copyright_in_the_... : ”At this point, the text will be reviewed by the European Parliament Committee on Legal Affairs, and then presented to the full European Parliament for a vote. Should the vote succeed, then each of the EU's member states have up to 24 months to introduce laws within their own countries to support the Directive.” So, this is a statement “we believe the…

> introduce laws within their own countries to support the Directive. Why so complicated? It seems a bad idea to have 28 different laws which generally say the same thing but with possibly small differences so it gets a minefield. No wonder EU is a difficult market. Who possibly thought that's a good idea?

Simpler than trying to craft a regulation that would be compatible with:

- Common law systems and civil law systems,

- with or without constitutions,

- in republics, federations, monarchies and principalties

- speaking 20-odd official languages.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#96

Post by avar »

isostatic wrote: post #43
decebalus1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With that, countries like the U.K., who have a strong national identity, can and should leave - if they want to be an independent nation. I want what you're smoking. What are you talking about? Do the Scots identify with the Welsh or the Irish? The UK, as all countries is an artificial construct which did not 'organically' came to existence based on the 'national' awakening of Its population.

Quite, as a UK citizen I struggle to see anything in common with 52% of my fellow citizens

Assuming you mean because of the Brexit vote, then you either mean 38% or 66%.

Turnout was only 72%. So if you've got a beef with Brexit voters that's 52*0.72 =~ 38%, or maybe you also resent those who didn't bother to vote at all, which combined with Brexit voters raises it to around 66%.

That's before attempting to adjust for voters who've died since the vote, and those voting age citizens who couldn't legally vote in 2016.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#97

Post by isostatic »

kosievdmerwe wrote: post #92
mattmanser wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? The Netherlands alone has 26 MEPs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_(European_Parlia...

As a guess, the MEPs are divided proportionally to parties based on the vote total of the entire country. Rather than say, splitting the country up into chunks and having each chunk selecting an MEP.

Large countries are split into chunks - the UK comprises about 9 constituencies IIRC.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#98

Post by sonnyblarney »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #41
TadaScientist wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh really? National identities didn't arise naturally? Ask the Greeks and the Italians

You almost couldn't have picked two worse examples. Italy, for most of its history was divided into regions or even into smaller city states depending on the era. Even during the Roman hedgemony the peninusala did not act as a single political entity. There was significant disagreement about who outside of Roman was "Roman". This came to a head when Rome fought a war against it's neighboring cities and villages over…

Actually he picked good examples.

"Greek nationalism developed around the same time."

This not true.

While the 'nation state' as a legal formalism didn't arrive until recently - the 'Greek identity' existed in antiquity.

Not only that - Greek identity was maintained throughout 2000 years of occupation!

That's how strong and 'not arbitrary' their cultural foundation is.

If smaller Greek states were 'arbitrary' - they would have evaporated during Roman occupation. But an entity the Romans called 'Graecia' (sound familiar?) changed hands several times throughout history - more or less intact as a people and culture.

Though Greece was a collection of smaller states, and never a unified entity - they shared very similar cultural foundations, which were distinct from those around them (most of which changed and/or evaporated).

When the Persians invaded 'Greece' - the infighting Greek states bound together and acted more or less as an entity to push out the invaders.

Point being: 'Invading Persians' was not the same thing as 'Spartans invading Athens'.

Nation states were not arbitrarily formed, they are mostly ethnically oriented, and some of the boundaries have not changed in eons.

The thesis that 'nation states are arbitrary' is easily dismissed by having a look at maps of Europe throughout time. The state of Sweden is not some random thing, it's where 'the Swedes' live - roughly.

If the lines were 'arbitrary' - we'd see a mishmash of weird lines, crossing ethnicities - much like the somewhat arbitrary divisions between Syria, Iraq, Kuwait etc..

But they are not.

Funny enough, I think the legal IP questions of this article have nothing to do with this issue! For once, we're dealing with a more secular, legal thing, I think.

Summary: 'Graecia' was Greece literally more than 2000 years ago, the formation of a 'Greek state' is not arbitrary.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#99

Post by justtopost »

carom wrote: post #29
DubiousPusher wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pedestal contemporary people put national identity on is just that, contemporary. National identities didn't arise naturally. Many of them were very thoughtfully and intentionally invented. For most of human history, the idea that people over a geography the size of Engalnd would see themselves as one people would've been ridiculous. It's really only in the last 200-400 years that people have accepted the nation…

Comments like this remind me how much I like California. It's nice to be in a place that doesn't conflate regional identity with race or religion. It was a surprise to me when living on the east coast how often people asked about my heritage. My people are whoever comes down to Old Muscle Beach to work out, whoever is at the skate park. I'm super happy that those crowds are varied.

They do, just not locally. Ask an average californian about the average person from tennessee, and the bigotry is just as real.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#100

Post by NeedMoreTea »

mstade wrote: post #61
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> countries like the U.K., who have a strong national identity I laughed, good one. You're aware of Scotland almost voting for independence, and Northern Ireland being demographically only a matter of time until independence (reunification with Ireland)? Or that both of those places voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU? Gibraltar voted 99% remain. So which bit of the UK wants to be an independent nation? There's…

As a non-brit having lived in London for a few years my (mostly but not entirely tounge in cheek) take on it is that it seems pretty much all parts of England loathes every other part of England, to variying degrees; while all other parts of the kingdom also dislikes most of England, to varying degrees. The only thing that seems to unite the British, in my mind, is non-londoner's (and some londoner's too!) dislike fo…

You seem to be figuring us out quite well. Most of the inter regional loathing is a sort of benign, almost friendly loathing, until you look south or north(depending on starting point)... North-south divide is a little more real, if you see what I mean.

Well, England unites for soccer, Scotland, with their own footie team, hopes for England to go out on penalties, as always. :)

For things where there's a British rather than English team they might.

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