Live data from Hacker News

SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

jedimark.net

31–40 of 55 posts

Re: SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

#31

From the linked blog post: > Let it be known that the hosts of the ApneaBoard forum have finally succeeded in their efforts to hijack the SleepyHead project. Sounds like it's not "shutting down" as much as forked, and he's upset. Also it looks like the reason why it's getting forked is because critical bugs went out. People are relying on this to live, and he's treating it like a hobby -- because it is to him. His po…

The code is GPLed[1]. It sounds like there were other people willing to contribute. The code goes on, without him.

Which means you have a license to use the code, per the original author's copyright. It does not mean you automatically have a license to the original author's trademark. In short, if you fork, you should rename your fork to something else.

Re: SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

#32
post #20

Two innovations have revolutionized my life—CPAP and Sleepyhead. I volunteered to do a sleep study at the famous Stanford Sleep Clinic some 15 years ago hoping that they would tell me I’m superhuman and don’t need sleep. They came back and told me that I sleep very poorly. CPAP machines are (finally) wonderful, but the manufacturers don’t share any of the data that their machines collect other than basics like hours…

Curious; what are the perils of drinking wine with dinner?

Unrelated to CPAP, but alcohol is a strong suppressor of REM sleep (cf. Walker, Why We Sleep).

Re: SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

#33
post #24

Read into this more, here http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t174687/SleepyHead-Project... and here http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-SleepyHead-version-1... Its not as black and white as it seems

Well, they should've called their fork something other than "SleepyHead". From what I could gather from these threads: - Maintainer disappeared for a while, people wanted their fixes merged. - ApneaBoard community made a "1.1.0" release of "SleepyHead" without the author's approval, rather than forking it and calling it something else. - Maintainer unhappy about them using his trademark without his permission.

>ApneaBoard community made a "1.1.0" release of "SleepyHead" without the author's approval, rather than forking it and calling it something else

So Mark says. The ApneaBoard folks say that it was released by Mark's chosen right hand man.

As far as I can tell the ApneaBoard folks have yet to release their own version or fork the code. They seem to be organizing to do just that which is what set Mark off.

Re: SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

#34

Read into this more, here http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t174687/SleepyHead-Project... and here http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-SleepyHead-version-1... Its not as black and white as it seems

Yup, this was an interesting read as well - http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-SleepyHead-version-1...

I respect all the work and dedication it took him to build what he did, but from the reading I've done on the forums, it does appear that he is the primary source of all this drama. There really isn't any competing interests, and no big corporate takeover.

Re: SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

#35
post #24

Read into this more, here http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t174687/SleepyHead-Project... and here http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-SleepyHead-version-1... Its not as black and white as it seems

Well, they should've called their fork something other than "SleepyHead". From what I could gather from these threads: - Maintainer disappeared for a while, people wanted their fixes merged. - ApneaBoard community made a "1.1.0" release of "SleepyHead" without the author's approval, rather than forking it and calling it something else. - Maintainer unhappy about them using his trademark without his permission.

As far as I read so far, AB did not fork the program. They mirrored the original binary. With the original donation links to the original owner.

It's a mess.

Re: SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

#36

Read into this more, here http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t174687/SleepyHead-Project... and here http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-SleepyHead-version-1... Its not as black and white as it seems

Seems like this dude has made himself in his mind the one and only last-word in the entire project, which is fine, but then if you're going to vanish for months at a time, you need to have someone else available to watch over things.

He doesn't seem to be willing to cede ANY control to someone, but also needs to take several months off the project at a time. Neither of these are inherently bad but you can't have it both ways.

Re: SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

#37

From the linked blog post: > Let it be known that the hosts of the ApneaBoard forum have finally succeeded in their efforts to hijack the SleepyHead project. Sounds like it's not "shutting down" as much as forked, and he's upset. Also it looks like the reason why it's getting forked is because critical bugs went out. People are relying on this to live, and he's treating it like a hobby -- because it is to him. His po…

> People are relying on this to live As much as I want free software and all that, it seems like medical devices have the best cause for DRM and all the protections it affords.

You know how bad codebases from huge, over-managed, "risk-averse" companies can be. You know that the people that make medical devices are generally huge, over-managed, "risk-averse" companies. I think you can put two and two together, and I really don't think you want to go in that direction.

Re: SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

#38

From the linked blog post: > Let it be known that the hosts of the ApneaBoard forum have finally succeeded in their efforts to hijack the SleepyHead project. Sounds like it's not "shutting down" as much as forked, and he's upset. Also it looks like the reason why it's getting forked is because critical bugs went out. People are relying on this to live, and he's treating it like a hobby -- because it is to him. His po…

It wasn’t even a fork. They mirrored a binary he’d released as a test build because it was more bug-free than the prior official build. He’s upset because he didn’t like that.

Re: SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

#39
Not so Black and White, e.g. from the apneaboard forum he trashes:

>The pattern goes like this:

1. JediMark asks for feedback, development help etc. 2. Folks step up to the plate and help him out. 3. The code is improved and released. 4. Time passes, bugs are found, new machines need support, so those that help Mark out try to contact him to inform him of these needful things. 5. Mark goes "dark" and drops out of any online activity for MONTHS at a time. 6. The "helpers" get frustrated and keep trying to contact Mark for direction. 7. Their requests are ignored by Mark, repeatedly. 8. The "helpers" start talking about trying to help fix the code themselves, since users are clamoring for the fixes with JediMark nowhere to be found. 9. The "helpers" actually fix a bit of the code and offer it up to those who would like to use a "fixed" version, or install a patch. 10. Suddenly, JediMark comes out of hiding, and attacks the "helpers" for not allowing him time to fix the problems himself, saying (basically) that "No one understands the code like I do, since I am the creator of SleepyHead, and your efforts to 'fix' things only messes up my progress!!!" and "You guys are trying to steal SleepyHead away!" 11. The "helpers" are stunned by Mark's attacks and slink off away into oblivion, since they're offended that Mark thinks they are a bunch of "rebels". 12. More months pass with nothing being done. 13. GOTO step 4 (1)

-------------------

>I was your friend, for several years, until you decided that I was your enemy because I suggested you talk to Pugsy about things that confused new users. Things that confused them then, and things that continue to confuse them now.

At that point, you decided I was out to get you" and trying to destroy sleepyhead.

You've done the same with Arie, who's been helping you for far longer than I had, and now you've decided that Apneaboard is against you.

The fact that people don't agree* with everything you might think DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE AGAINST YOU!.

Your real friends aren't the sycophants that do nothing but shower you with praise.

Your real friends are the ones that actually give enough of a shit to tell you "hey, dude, you've got a problem.", or in the case of Sleepyhead "hey, what you're doing is hurting the program, and everybody that uses it.

Go ahead and let someone else work on 1.1, if you don't like it, FINE, just ignore them.

There's no reason for you to go off the deep end, making posts about how everybody is out to get you.

BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT out to get you[/u][/i][/b], or, destroy sleepyhead.

For Gods sake, you and I worked for hundreds of hours, you told me endless stories about your childhood and growing up and sent me pictures of your first Christmas tree, and you wearing the T-shirt I had custom made for you.... but when I suggested you talk to Pugsy about what confuses people... you were in one of your paranoid phases, and suddenly, I was THE ENEMY.

The same thing is happening now.

If I didn't care, about you... I'd just laugh and say "he's off his rocker again..." I'd really rather you get help though, so you can be a happier person.(2)

(1) Apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-SleepyHead-version-1-1-Release-plus-odd-posts-by-JediMark?pid=284578#pid284578

(2) http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t174687/SleepyHead-Project...

Re: SleepyHead Project Is Shutting Down

#40
post #13

> If there is one tiny bit of hard learned advice I can leave behind from all this, it would be: Friends don’t let friends release full blown complex applications under the GPL – Keep it for hacks or corporate backed stuff. Anyone know what the story is behind this? Is it that GPL is hard to monetize?

If you read the other posts in this discussion, with links to the forum discussions, it appears that he thinks people having access to the source of the program without him as a gatekeeper and sole steward is a mistake, and allowed people to steal his work by forking the project when he was perceived to be out of communication for months on end.
Post reply on HN