Public protest against Amazon • Hacker News Board

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#471

Post by kamaal » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 12:41 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #462

kamaal wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Never submit negative feedback via "anonymous" or "confidential" feedback processes at work Never give feedback at work, unless positive. This includes things like code review. The dirty little secret of human relationships is every one wants to be made to feel special, error less and look good. Only thing any kind of feed back, correction or criticism leads to is rivalry/enmity, and it won't end well. The question…

> Never give feedback at work, unless positive. This includes things like code review. > There can be no friends at work. I think that's a bad advice. I'm sad that this is an experience someone can take from a job and that there are jobs where this applies. Unless you can't lose a job, do disagree on technical reasons and do make friends with good people. Not every place is so restrictive and full of backstabbers. An…

>>Unless you can't lose a job, do disagree on technical reasons and do make friends with good people.

This really is the equivalent of marking a giant X on your back and walking in to an arena full of ace snipers.

I have literally seen people being labelled as non-team players and eliminated for arguing against bad technical decisions. In most departments projects are started to gain visibility of high impact work- on which they will later ride to get to rewards and promotions. Disagreeing means telling them they have to eliminate you for their project to happen.

They will get their project eventually. Congratulations, you have now been marked as some that needs to eliminated for them have a good career. And they will deal with you appropriately.

This happens in all people structures. People are the same everywhere, in all times. Don't be in the delusion that some companies are special enough that it won't happen there.

If some one is in a position of power. Any debate, disagreement or criticism is a bad move to make against them.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#472

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 1:29 PM UTC

sobani wrote: post #451

seltzered_ wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Echoing the HP employee, submitting claims monthly for remote work expenses (phone/internet bills, office supplies, travel) is normal. Ive worked as an apps engineer at a couple BigCos with same policies and the process never bothered me, I submit my claims as soon as a trip ends or when I get the bills. The thing I would press is to get paid fairly, and bi-weekly. I’ve never had a salaried job that was paid monthly.

> I’ve never had a salaried job that was paid monthly. Interesting. I'm Dutch and I've never heard of a permanent job that was not paid monthly. If someone told me they were not paid monthly, I would assume they are a temp with variable hours.

Bi-weekly, or every 2 weeks, is norm in US as far as I know. It's easier for everyone in my opinion, except maybe employers that want to take advantage of their employees.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#473

Post by mancerayder » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

halbritt wrote: post #169

morley wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re #1: I realize this is the safest option for your own self-preservation, if you don't give negative feedback, how do you expect your work environment to change? The way I see it, if you're in a bad situation at work, you have two options: try to change it, or leave. If you're going to leave anyway, why not at least try to improve your situation first so you give yourself the best chance of success? And that way, th…

Pro-tip: never expect your work environment to change. The chances of a report overcoming the whims of a shitty manager are very, very small especially in the context of a company that tolerates the shitty manager in the first place. Generally speaking, the best thing to do is to smile, appear to do reasonably decent work, and begin looking elsewhere.

If you wait long enough by the river, the bodies of your enemies will float by.

Maybe I've gotten lucky, but patience has worked well for me. If only I could have told my younger self...

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#474

Post by EpicEng » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:21 PM UTC

pault wrote: post #299

EpicEng wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately he wasn't trained in mechanical engineering and failed to spot a serious error during design review.

Eh, I don't know. Why bother securing exhaust ports when someone can just jump to hyperspace and destroy your whole fleet?

Fair point! All that time and money wasted on weapons systems.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#475

Post by ethbro » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:33 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #445

ethbro wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stories like this are important. Because sometimes the situation is bad for your boss too, the company is in financial straits, miscommunication, {insert other extenuating circumstances}. ... but sometimes your boss really is just an asshole, liar, alcoholic, and/or a sociopath. Never assume the later off the bat, but never completely discount the possibility either. Because it'll probably happen at least once in an…

> Because sometimes the situation is bad for your boss too, the company is in financial straits, miscommunication, {insert other extenuating circumstances}. So? That's the boss's problem to deal with. You owe the company absolutely nothing beyond your contracted hours in exchange for your contracted salary. I say this as an employer.

You owe common decency to other human beings trying to act decently.

If your boss happens to be a cog in a broken machine, treating them like it's their fault isn't fair to them or you.

Of course, you can always quit (and usually should). But failing to determine root cause and mis-blaming your boss is about as useful as screaming at the gate attendant when your flight gets a weather delay.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#476

Post by amzn-sdethrow » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

tozeur wrote: post #394

amzn_throwaway7 wrote: post #335

The author of the article posted their Amazon user name, so I decided to look them up. I'll start with raw data, and then inject my own thoughts: * The author is the bottom contributor on his team by a large margin. Their few contributions are primarily configuration changes and pixel pushes. * The author hasn't made any contributions since last August, likely due to a leave of absence * The author's manager has rece…

How did you get access to a specific managers yearly feedback? That doesn’t seem normal that all managers’ feedback is publicly posted.

There is a yearly tech survey with a lot of detailed questions about your experience at Amazon and about your manager and team. The results for every single Manager are public. The scores impact a manager's overall rating. I pay a lot of attention to the responses when considering new teams internally.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#477

Post by t1o5 » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

aprdm wrote: post #390

atombender wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The LCA process also forces the employer to test the labor market first. It's all theater, and based on 20 year-old business practices (you have to publish your job ad in a major newspaper and some other places, of which one option is to have it be read out loud by a local radio station!), but it's not like you can skip through that process. How does LMIA compare here?

It has similar rules that can be cheated as well. However an lmia supported work permit it's the employee's and not employer's, meaning that if you get fired you can still stay in the country and find another job. You do need to apply for the Visa again for the next job but being in Canada already makes it much simpler. Essentially you aren't at your employer mercy. Also if you work for one year you usually already h…

Slight exception in Quebec though. Quebec has its own immigration rules & policies. Quebec do not follow rest of Canada's Express Entry or provincial nomination. In regards to obtaining a skilled work permit in Quebec, its a longer process with Federal + Provincial involvement. ie: LMIA (Federal) + CAQ (Quebec).

In Quebec there are no BOWP. So if you lost your job, you have to move out of Quebec province and get another LMIA work permit. Getting a permanent residency while working and residing in Quebec is not easy as Quebec's immigration system and policies are archaic and downright broken with more importance given to French language than any other employable skills. Recently 18,000 Quebec applications were downright rejected by Quebec in the name of bringing in a new skill based immigration system.

I would suggest anyone looking to move to Quebec in a skilled work permit or applying for residency while residing in Quebec to refrain from it as it will take at least 4 years (CSQ - 2 years + Federal - 2 years ) instead of 6 months in comparison with the rest of Canada. This applies to foreign students who come to study in Quebec too.

Permanent Residency Processing time:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...

Quebec skilled worker applicants face uncertain future in light of immigration overhaul:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-immigration-a...

Hiring in the province of Quebec:

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/servi...

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#478

Post by oblio » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #413

BOOSTERHIDROGEN wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any good resources how to give feedback in work/relationships?

Robert Greene's books: The 48 Laws of Power, The Art of Seduction, The 33 Strategies of War, The 50th Law, and The Laws of Human Nature. Stealing the Corner office by Brendan Reid Assorted works of Niccolo Machiavelli and Balatazar Gracian. It will be hard to impossible to make transition even after reading these books, but at least you can detect and avoid problems at work. Or at best set up a firewall around you. L…

> The fact of the matter is people are bad and do what is good in their interests even if it hurts the whole world, be prepared, be ready and have means to take care of yourself.

Nope, people are not bad. People are neutral, equally capable of good or evil. Just don't assume anyone except your mother loves you unconditionally and you should be fine :)

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#479

Post by amzn-sdethrow » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

dodobirdlord wrote: post #347

amzn_throwaway7 wrote: post #335

The author of the article posted their Amazon user name, so I decided to look them up. I'll start with raw data, and then inject my own thoughts: * The author is the bottom contributor on his team by a large margin. Their few contributions are primarily configuration changes and pixel pushes. * The author hasn't made any contributions since last August, likely due to a leave of absence * The author's manager has rece…

For what it's worth, it bears keeping in mind that the tool that you are likely using does not report activity on any parts of the codebase that you personally don't have permission to view. Also, many teams keep codebases out of the standard code store, either in alternative self-managed version control systems or on GitHub.

Code contributions are public even if you don't have commit permissions on team packages. You can look at anyone's code reviews.

Caveat being secret projects. However that's not the case here.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#480

Post by amzn-sdethrow » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

muraiki wrote: post #460

amzn_throwaway7 wrote: post #335

The author of the article posted their Amazon user name, so I decided to look them up. I'll start with raw data, and then inject my own thoughts: * The author is the bottom contributor on his team by a large margin. Their few contributions are primarily configuration changes and pixel pushes. * The author hasn't made any contributions since last August, likely due to a leave of absence * The author's manager has rece…

And why should we believe your throwaway account? Put your name on here if you are willing to destroy this person even further. If you really do have access to such data, I'm absolutely astonished that you would think it ok to access it and post it like this. And finally, as anyone with any experience with data should know, data doesn't always capture the full story.

Anyone within Amazon can look at code contributions. The manager results he's talking about are also public. I think this gives a sense for the other side of the story here.