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Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

41–50 of 108 posts

Re: Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

#41

The root issue here is finding some path forward for helping people. Psychiatry, psychology etc aren't doing a great job with that. He tries to determine what has happened historically but not why. Why was this guy using drugs starting at age ten? What led up to that? Shouldn't it be classified as a parenting failure, not a "disorder" on his part? What was the history with the father? Perhaps assaulting his father wa…

>Labels determine what mental models we use when trying to intercede in a problem. Different labels get very different reactions and treatment modes.

I think he ever-so-briefly touched on a different angle of that problem: "The psychoanalysts don’t like it because it ignores the “unique milieu of individuality.” The more biologically-oriented clinicians don’t like it because it ignores biology. The DSM lacks “validity,” they say. A diagnosis based on a combination of symptoms is, they might argue, like a constellation of stars — sure, you could reliably identify the Big Dipper, but no one would argue that the Big Dipper is a valid interstellar system. It’s just a name."

The problem is that the label matches no defined model; which is why I think that everyone dislikes it.

>I hate labels, but they are a useful communication tool.

Agreed but without the matching underlying models, they're just added toil; especially, if they're only "valid" in niche use-cases (such as clinical settings).

For example, we have a general idea of what Schizophrenia is but when it comes to the classification, diagnosis, and/or treatment, that's when we lose context. Schizophrenia isn't - implicitly - the same classification, diagnosis, and treatments across the board for every patient. So, effectively, you're coupling a large group of individuals under a very generic label, which has no effective model applied to it.

Re: Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

#42

Sure, we can label and categorize human behavior, but first you need to define what is normal.

Jordan Peterson, is that you? Pretty sure we can ballpark it. I had a cup of coffee this morning - normal, a woman in the news kept her dead sister in a freezer for almost 20 years - not normal.

Re: Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

#43

Just imagine a doctor telling you what ICD code you have. There's nothing wrong with classification and labeling things. I think society is getting a little carried away with such topics. Personally, I think it's a phase that collectively we'll pass and reflect on how extreme we took things in order to try and obtain balance. There's a difference in calling someone "crazy" vs saying they have a mental disorder. The m…

[deleted]

Re: Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

#44

The root issue here is finding some path forward for helping people. Psychiatry, psychology etc aren't doing a great job with that. He tries to determine what has happened historically but not why. Why was this guy using drugs starting at age ten? What led up to that? Shouldn't it be classified as a parenting failure, not a "disorder" on his part? What was the history with the father? Perhaps assaulting his father wa…

Definitions are much too narrow, there is so much overlap, ultimately though therapeutic methods don't differ quite so wildly. The handful of conditions he was displaying are common differential diagnoses with very similar treatments.

However, there are stigmas attached to certain diagnoses and not their differentials so some people prefer less negative labels.

In my experience with world class psychiatrists your views are a little outdated, generally the more academic practitioners are much more like Dr Barron.

Re: Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

#45
post #3

Us humans certainly prefer to put boundaries and names on things. And indeed, it is often unwise i.e. with (one of our) species definitions: A can procreate with B, B can with C but A cannot with C, meaning A==B, B==C but A!=C, a paradox because of our tendencies. Could it be a cultural thing? While I grow older I find it more natural to think of things as continuous or to assign uncertainty to "facts", but perhaps o…

I think the analogy to species is misleading. While there are interesting edge cases, the basic idea that there are different kinds of animals is really obvious & clear: Sparrows don't try to mate with owls, seagulls, pigeons, let alone mice, earthworms & cockroaches. Instead with other sparrows, and produce more sparrows, which we can really confidently distinguish from owls, knowing just one of size/food/color/call would be enough. Nature is extremely clumpy here. Lots of points in the size/food/color/call space simply aren't occupied.

Maybe a better analogy would be to the informally defined neighbourhoods which exist in many cities. Everyone knows there's a Little Italy and a China Town, and could point out the main street of each. But whether or not an apartment three blocks away is or isn't in that neighbourhood gets pretty fuzzy, and depends a lot on what the realtor thinks you are looking for.

Re: Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

#46
post #42

Sure, we can label and categorize human behavior, but first you need to define what is normal.

Jordan Peterson, is that you? Pretty sure we can ballpark it. I had a cup of coffee this morning - normal, a woman in the news kept her dead sister in a freezer for almost 20 years - not normal.

how about "i had a cup of coffee and felt like the world was ending but i got over it with some anti-depressants"? have i been normalized?

Re: Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

#47

The root issue here is finding some path forward for helping people. Psychiatry, psychology etc aren't doing a great job with that. He tries to determine what has happened historically but not why. Why was this guy using drugs starting at age ten? What led up to that? Shouldn't it be classified as a parenting failure, not a "disorder" on his part? What was the history with the father? Perhaps assaulting his father wa…

> Labels determine what mental models we use when trying to intercede in a problem. Different labels get very different reactions and treatment modes. I think he ever-so-briefly touched on a different angle of that problem: " The psychoanalysts don’t like it because it ignores the “unique milieu of individuality.” The more biologically-oriented clinicians don’t like it because it ignores biology. The DSM lacks “valid…

I understand that cancer may have similar characteristics. All cancers are similar in that they are uncontrolled cell division, but the causes, symptoms, treatments, and characteristics of every cancer can be very different.

Re: Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

#48

Just imagine a doctor telling you what ICD code you have. There's nothing wrong with classification and labeling things. I think society is getting a little carried away with such topics. Personally, I think it's a phase that collectively we'll pass and reflect on how extreme we took things in order to try and obtain balance. There's a difference in calling someone "crazy" vs saying they have a mental disorder. The m…

If past technological advances are any indication, the kids will adapt to this new world much better than we will.

Re: Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

#49
post #29

Just imagine a doctor telling you what ICD code you have. There's nothing wrong with classification and labeling things. I think society is getting a little carried away with such topics. Personally, I think it's a phase that collectively we'll pass and reflect on how extreme we took things in order to try and obtain balance. There's a difference in calling someone "crazy" vs saying they have a mental disorder. The m…

For me one of the issue of the current names is that their definition change too much depending on the context and the person interpreting them. For instance if you say someone your arm is 'broken', they understand something is deeply damaged (not just fissured). They might not know the specifics on how it broke, where exactly, how you are healing it or how it impacts you, but they know the basic criticality of it. I…

This is a total tangent, but I find it funny, everyone uses bone breaking as an example, but a broken bone is a unique injury. It can totally disable your limb. If you don't immobilize it, it won't heal properly. If you immobilize it, it'll heal back stronger than ever in a few weeks. Mental illness seems more similar to a soft tissue injury. There's a much wider range of severity, it can be asymptomatic, cause instability, or be completely disabling. There's much debate over the right treatment in many cases (surgery isn't always the best option, but sometimes it is). People disagree on whether certain ligaments and tendons can heal.

Re: Should Mental Disorders Have Names?

#50
post #3

Us humans certainly prefer to put boundaries and names on things. And indeed, it is often unwise i.e. with (one of our) species definitions: A can procreate with B, B can with C but A cannot with C, meaning A==B, B==C but A!=C, a paradox because of our tendencies. Could it be a cultural thing? While I grow older I find it more natural to think of things as continuous or to assign uncertainty to "facts", but perhaps o…

I agree with much of what you say. I've heard it said that education is a series of increasingly small lies. If you started teaching the whole truth and nothing but, from a young age, the student would fail to grasp the big picture and the broad connections in the way the world works. When you let something go, it drops. Well, unless it's lighter than air. And it doesn't drop, it attracts to the Earth. And actually, it attracts the Earth back to itself. And it doesn't simply "drop", it accelerates. And gravitational forces and air friction determine the acceleration and the jerk. If you don't omit anything, you can't communicate anything.

The broader point I'm getting at is, first you need to learn about the artificial distinctions so you can "from" the subject. Then, once you know all the rules by heart, you can feel free to break them.

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