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Public protest against Amazon

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Public protest against Amazon

#411

Post by kamaal »

morley wrote: post #57
forgotmypw3 wrote: post #13

I want to preface this comment with a statement that in no way am I trying to blame the victim here, only to point out what can be learned from this situation. This is certainly not the first time I've heard of Amazon being a shitty place to work at, and I don't see much reason to doubt the story of a vindictive boss doing everything they can to make an employee miserable after learning that the employee submitted ba…

Re #1: I realize this is the safest option for your own self-preservation, if you don't give negative feedback, how do you expect your work environment to change? The way I see it, if you're in a bad situation at work, you have two options: try to change it, or leave. If you're going to leave anyway, why not at least try to improve your situation first so you give yourself the best chance of success? And that way, th…

>>how do you expect your work environment to change?

By letting them fail. The only way people learn lessons is through failures and disasters.

Let the bad systems fail, that's the best way you can help them.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#412

Post by not_kurt_godel »

all_blue_chucks wrote: post #296
not_kurt_godel wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those numbers are possible, but much higher than average by my estimation. Glassdoor says average ~$111k for software engineering as a whole[0]. A more realistic expectation for a 'good' compensation package would be ~$80-95k for junior engineer and ~$180-250k for senior. Obviously there are many factors to account for, and both those numbers can vary widely, but the ones you gave are not what one should be e…

Glass door either only shows base salaries or is completely out of touch with tech companies. Sure, the lone "web developer" at a small nonprofit might make $80k, but at a FAANG? Please.

Microsoft hires junior engineers out of college at ~$80k in Seattle. FAANG might be a bit higher, especially with COL in the Bay Area, but plenty of people get hired by the big companies in that range.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#413

Post by kamaal »

BOOSTERHIDROGEN wrote: post #406
kamaal wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Never submit negative feedback via "anonymous" or "confidential" feedback processes at work Never give feedback at work, unless positive. This includes things like code review. The dirty little secret of human relationships is every one wants to be made to feel special, error less and look good. Only thing any kind of feed back, correction or criticism leads to is rivalry/enmity, and it won't end well. The question…

Do you have any good resources how to give feedback in work/relationships?

Robert Greene's books: The 48 Laws of Power, The Art of Seduction, The 33 Strategies of War, The 50th Law, and The Laws of Human Nature.

Stealing the Corner office by Brendan Reid

Assorted works of Niccolo Machiavelli and Balatazar Gracian.

It will be hard to impossible to make transition even after reading these books, but at least you can detect and avoid problems at work. Or at best set up a firewall around you.

Lastly expecting goodness from people is wrong. The fact of the matter is people are bad and do what is good in their interests even if it hurts the whole world, be prepared, be ready and have means to take care of yourself.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#414

Post by _drimzy »

amzn_throwaway7 wrote: post #335

The author of the article posted their Amazon user name, so I decided to look them up. I'll start with raw data, and then inject my own thoughts: * The author is the bottom contributor on his team by a large margin. Their few contributions are primarily configuration changes and pixel pushes. * The author hasn't made any contributions since last August, likely due to a leave of absence * The author's manager has rece…

Poor performance shouldn't be a reason to mislead and treat inhumanly. The bit about "allowing transfer when wife gets a job in NYC" is misleading, and asking someone to work when their daughter is sick is just plain wrong. There is a respectful way of letting under performers go without being dicks.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#415

Post by amztawy_1190 »

curiousDog wrote: post #402

Word of advice, never work for Amazon. Out of the FANGs, it is quite easily the sleaziest place to work. As someone who worked there, I can believe OPs side of the story. At this point, most of the people who tolerate working there are indentured Indian H1-B employees because they’re stuck in the Green card queue. Even amongst them, the good ones left for greener pastures a long time ago!

Which team? Before I joined I spoke with a few friends who work there (after reading the NYT article and comments like yours) and got positive feedback. I work here for the past 3 years and so far touch wood nothing even near this. Pretty happy all in all. It’s like people talk about a different company. I’m at AWS, Sr SDE, any teams the above warning is more applicable to? Asking for myself in case I want to switch a teams to know what to avoid but also since we are hiring, I’d like others to know if it’s a specific team / department to avoid... Also, all of us in “good teams” should take ownership and figure out how to systematically fix the issues others obviously experience in other teams. If it’s a specific branch or department, I’d like to see all amazon employees protest to eradicate any toxic bosses / culture in these teams. I just have no way in knowing which ones are, it’s a huge company

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#416

Post by johnny99 »

kamaal wrote: post #397
forgotmypw3 wrote: post #13

I want to preface this comment with a statement that in no way am I trying to blame the victim here, only to point out what can be learned from this situation. This is certainly not the first time I've heard of Amazon being a shitty place to work at, and I don't see much reason to doubt the story of a vindictive boss doing everything they can to make an employee miserable after learning that the employee submitted ba…

>>Never submit negative feedback via "anonymous" or "confidential" feedback processes at work Never give feedback at work, unless positive. This includes things like code review. The dirty little secret of human relationships is every one wants to be made to feel special, error less and look good. Only thing any kind of feed back, correction or criticism leads to is rivalry/enmity, and it won't end well. The question…

Lincoln did criticize his generals, eventually removing McClellan from command for timidity. He was careful about how he did that though, and how he interacted with the rest of the general staff. But he proved to have a better grasp of strategy than most of them, which he was able to implement once he found Grant.

You're correct he was reluctant to overtly criticize, but the lesson to take away isn't to just not criticize. It's to be diplomatic and patient when trying to effect change. Being a natural leader, brilliant, and with great strategic intuition also helps :-)

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#417

Post by rajacombinator »

amzn_throwaway7 wrote: post #335

The author of the article posted their Amazon user name, so I decided to look them up. I'll start with raw data, and then inject my own thoughts: * The author is the bottom contributor on his team by a large margin. Their few contributions are primarily configuration changes and pixel pushes. * The author hasn't made any contributions since last August, likely due to a leave of absence * The author's manager has rece…

Very poor taste to post this. If I were a higher up at amazon I’d do my best to figure out who you were and fire you immediately.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#418

Post by rurban »

noitsnot wrote: post #188
halbritt wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pro-tip: never expect your work environment to change. The chances of a report overcoming the whims of a shitty manager are very, very small especially in the context of a company that tolerates the shitty manager in the first place. Generally speaking, the best thing to do is to smile, appear to do reasonably decent work, and begin looking elsewhere.

I second this. You'll almost never convince upper management the smooth-talking buddies they promoted could ever possibly be terrible to their employees.

Well, you could. It sometimes works. The problem is when the manager who manages your shitty manager moves away, and you get a new one. Good managers always get promoted or move away, only the terrible ones stay. The shitty manager will start afresh to get onto you.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#419

Post by selfselfself »

docker_up wrote: post #410

I had an horrible experience with a terrible manager about 10 years ago. We didn't get along at all, and he tried to throw me under the bus for a project that he mismanaged. He basically wrote lies about me on my performance review. I fought it via HR. The HR rep couldn't care less about it, but I kept persisting, and I had my coworkers vouch for me that what our manager said was false. He ended up rescinding the ent…

Have heard many Amazon stories around review being used by managers as a revenge tool. A true incident - a friend of mine and his coworker (same level) didn't get along. Their manager left and this coworker was made the manager since he had longer tenure. My friend received a PIP in 2 months flat and ended up leaving the company rather than put up a fight.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#420

Post by piyush_soni »

tozeur wrote: post #394
amzn_throwaway7 wrote: post #335

The author of the article posted their Amazon user name, so I decided to look them up. I'll start with raw data, and then inject my own thoughts: * The author is the bottom contributor on his team by a large margin. Their few contributions are primarily configuration changes and pixel pushes. * The author hasn't made any contributions since last August, likely due to a leave of absence * The author's manager has rece…

How did you get access to a specific managers yearly feedback? That doesn’t seem normal that all managers’ feedback is publicly posted.

Quite possible this throwaway account belongs to Uwais Khan, the guy's Manager? :)
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