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Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

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31–40 of 165 posts

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#31
Completely anecdotal evidence, but every female coworker I've ever worked with has left work to raise their child after the first baby. Every single one of them said that they were definitely coming back before they went on maternity leave (and I believe that they believed it).

The main issue in every case was that as the new mothers got to the end of their maternity leave, they started to think about day care. In the end, they felt that they could not trust the day care centres with their child. Similarly the mothers did not trust their own husbands to look after the child because the husband had not spent much time with the child at that point. Because all of the families I knew were relatively well off with dual incomes, they eventually decided that the woman would quit work to look after the child.

In my anecdotal data, in no cases was there a salary gap between the man and the woman. Both were making roughly the same amount. Neither was it a case of not being able to afford child care -- although, once they crunched the numbers the cost of child care was a good percentage of one of the salaries, so it made it easier to take the financial hit to move to a single income. As far as I could tell, in all cases it just came down to trust.

For this reason, I think there should be some sort of encouraged paternal leave. For example, the government/company in partnership could pay for 80% of the salary for 6 months for the father to look after the child. This would occur immediately after the mother's maternity leave.

What this does is provide a financial incentive for the father to learn to look after the child. When the paternity leave is finished, then the choices look very different. I think it's still likely that one parent (in well to do dual family incomes) will choose to look after their child and quit their job (and I see nothing wrong with that). However, now the woman has spent the last 6 months working and it will be a harder decision to quit. The man now has had a chance to show that he can look after the child and the woman will be able to trust him with that responsibility.

I honestly believe without that kind of system, there will always be a disparity between men and women when it comes to one parent choosing to quit their job and raise children. I should point out that, personally, I think raising children is a wonderful job, even if it doesn't pay so well ;-) Sometimes I think modern society looks down on that role and I think it's rather unfair. However, I do understand that we aren't quite modern enough to make that job reasonably risk free (you're dependent upon your spouse which is not always going to work out). We've got a long way to go...

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#33

I have yet to be told why it is important for there to be as many women in STEM as men apart from statements that I'm sexist for not knowing

Let's say we live in a world (or small town) where there are only 16 software developers, 8 men, 8 women. 4 of the women are amazing top notch engineers, and so are 4 of the men.

The other 4 men and 4 women are pretty good, but not nearly as good as the top developers.

If a company needs to hire 10 people, and they hire men, they will not be able to fill their entire hiring need.

Obviously a silly policy, and it leaves a lot of good talent on the table.

So instead, the company hires the best it can.

4 amazing women

4 amazing men

1 average woman

1 average man

That is an optimal team given the local talent!

But now let's have the company put in some sexist work place policies. Half the woman leave. Now the company is down to

2 amazing women

4 amazing men

1 average woman

1 average man

to make up for lost numbers, the company is going to have to hire talent that is not as good as the talent that left!

The tl;dr is that discriminatory policies artificially limit the labor pool, reducing the overall efficiency of a company (and the economy of a nation as a whole if looked at broadly enough).

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#34

I have yet to be told why it is important for there to be as many women in STEM as men apart from statements that I'm sexist for not knowing

If you agree to the basic principle that scientific ability and thought is equally prevalent amongst men and women, having fewer women scientists means we are not getting and developing the best scientific minds. Having as many women as men also means a you girl doesnt think science is for boys only which again means we potentially miss out on good/great scientific minds purely because they self-select out.

So if you are in favor of STEM getting the best STEM minds, its important for STEM fields to reflect that STEM is for everyone. Having as many women as men is a step in that direction.

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#37

I have yet to be told why it is important for there to be as many women in STEM as men apart from statements that I'm sexist for not knowing

From what I understand, if you mix women and men in the workplace then competition between employees goes up, for obvious reasons.

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#38

I have yet to be told why it is important for there to be as many women in STEM as men apart from statements that I'm sexist for not knowing

I don't personally think it's necessarily important for there to be "as many women in STEM as men." But I do think those women who want to be there shouldn't be de facto run out by sexist practices. I was a full-time wife and mom for a lot of years. I don't self identify as a feminist. But, post divorce, I've found that sexism has been a real issue in establishing an adequate income to support myself and my sons. So…

Do you think a stay home dad with equal employment gap would have an easier time rejoining a workforce ?

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#39
My wife and I are both STEM PhDs, and she left research after our first child was born; we could be a case study for this article.

For us, it was because her field (immunology) was simply less lucrative than mine (computer science). Given the differences in gender distributions between both fields, and the pay gap between fields, I think simplifying this as STEM collectively isn't sufficiently granular. I wonder what the rates are for "left CS after child" vs "left biology after child", and how they compare.

With that being said, it's likely that there are also systemic/structural differences as well; research (and academia in particular) is notorious for poor work-life balance (prior to tenure). Social undercurrents of expectation towards primary caregivers would certainly have some influence as well.

I know it shifts the narrative slightly, but I would also be interested to see the effects of PhDs on birthrates, broken down by field, gender, and country of birth. It seems to me that it would be negatively correlated, but I don't have the data to back up that observation.

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#40
If I'm understanding the timeline of the study properly, they're looking at parents of toddlers. IMO it would be more interesting to see how many parents were still working part-time or not at all once their kids are old enough to go to school
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