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Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

nature.com

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Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#21

Post by DoreenMichele »

therealforsen wrote: post #10

I have yet to be told why it is important for there to be as many women in STEM as men apart from statements that I'm sexist for not knowing

I don't personally think it's necessarily important for there to be "as many women in STEM as men." But I do think those women who want to be there shouldn't be de facto run out by sexist practices.

I was a full-time wife and mom for a lot of years. I don't self identify as a feminist. But, post divorce, I've found that sexism has been a real issue in establishing an adequate income to support myself and my sons.

So I think society still has work to do. It's very problematic to deny people a means to support themselves and then act like their poverty is due to laziness or the like. That kind of "fuck you" has been known to foment bloody revolution.

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#22

Post by Aloha »

therealforsen wrote: post #10

I have yet to be told why it is important for there to be as many women in STEM as men apart from statements that I'm sexist for not knowing

Because I think it's the only way we have to measure that there are no cultural barriers for women entering STEM professions.

I've often theorized that much of the widely talked about pay gap has to do with either professions that women often wish to work in - or that society steers them to - but I dont know enough to know if its personal preference, or sociocultural bias driving personal preference.

In the end, pay equality and open doors are important things, and is something we as a society should work on.

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#24

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

therealforsen wrote: post #10

I have yet to be told why it is important for there to be as many women in STEM as men apart from statements that I'm sexist for not knowing

Start by not setting up strawman arguments for your conversation partners if you're interested in getting a real answer.

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#26

Post by newnewpdro »

therealforsen wrote: post #10

I have yet to be told why it is important for there to be as many women in STEM as men apart from statements that I'm sexist for not knowing

It's not, there's no reason to expect there to be as many women in the workforce as there are men in general. There's an obvious asymmetry which won't go away until men start giving birth.

The rational debate is generally surrounding equal opportunity and compensation.

Of course there are always going to be quacks pushing the debate in irrational directions however, and it's a trendy topic at the moment.

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#27

Post by lixtra »

microDude wrote: post #11

My wife's experience: PI: "You put your kid in front of the TV for 2 hours a day to get stuff done? That's terrible parenting." PI: "You will be late 1 day for a meaningless group presentation to your own lab, because your child is sick and can't go to daycare? Get your priorities straight."

Why was it your wife’s problem when the child was sick and not yours?

EDIT: Sorry, I just assumed that you didn’t equally stay at home when the kid was sick. How did your boss react when you didn’t show up?

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#28

Post by [deleted] »

microDude wrote: post #11

My wife's experience: PI: "You put your kid in front of the TV for 2 hours a day to get stuff done? That's terrible parenting." PI: "You will be late 1 day for a meaningless group presentation to your own lab, because your child is sick and can't go to daycare? Get your priorities straight."

[deleted]

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#29

Post by gboudrias »

therealforsen wrote: post #10

I have yet to be told why it is important for there to be as many women in STEM as men apart from statements that I'm sexist for not knowing

The closer your field's demographics are to your society's, the lower the risk of (unconscious) bias is. Science as a whole should strive to be as unbiased as possible, as that's the closest we can get to objectivity.

The same logic applies to businesses, to reduce the risk of making mistakes that come with echo chambers.

Re: Nearly Half of US Female Scientists Leave Full-Time Science After First Child

#30

Post by rb808 »

Its kinda interesting to see the related articles on the same site: about how many of the smartest scientists are more successful doing other stuff (like finance). https://www.nature.com/news/life-outside-the-lab-the-ones-wh...

Perhaps there is a common theme that Full-Time science isn't necessarily the best life path for many people and the "US Female Scientists who leave" are actually happy with the outcome rather than symptom of a problem.

You can phrase it another way - "Many Male Scientists stuck in their job and unable to change their STEM careers".

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