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Public protest against Amazon

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Public protest against Amazon

#71

Post by liveoneggs »

dpcan wrote: post #68

This may seem mean, and feel free to argue with me and prove my statement below wrong. Well, which was it? Was he taking his daughter to therapy or working from home? If his daughter requires additional care, he needs to care for his daughter, but that can't interfere with work. If your kids are not disabled, they may not be interfering with your work, and therefore, when you are working from home - you are, in fact,…

a specific therapy session unlikely lasts the entire day and a flextime (starting work at 11) probably covers a single day being split up a little bit.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#72

Post by skookumchuck »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #33

My recommendation is to NEVER leave negative feedback on an employee survey. The BEST outcome I've seen from them is incredibly painful meetings that only seem to make the matter worse. My speculation on this is two fold. The first is that putting things in those surveys is a "permanent record" or at least "yearly review" issue for your manager. So you are (justly or not) harming them, and they will tend to respond t…

Right. Just like you don't trash-talk about about your ex. No good will come of it.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#73

Post by SilasX »

dpcan wrote: post #68

This may seem mean, and feel free to argue with me and prove my statement below wrong. Well, which was it? Was he taking his daughter to therapy or working from home? If his daughter requires additional care, he needs to care for his daughter, but that can't interfere with work. If your kids are not disabled, they may not be interfering with your work, and therefore, when you are working from home - you are, in fact,…

Thank you. I've seen a lot of abuse of the term. One time I worked with a recruiter [1] and said I was feeling really bad that day and took the day off from work and was resting at home. She replied, "ah, gotcha, so you're working from home today". And I was like, "no, I'm resting."

(With that said, it could still be a good-faith usage here -- like, he legitimately does work from home, and the therapy is relevant here because all the back-and-forth pickups would otherwise eat up much of the day.)

[1] Yes, I know -- never again.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#74

Post by femiagbabiaka »

alecco wrote: post #69
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #29

Workers need unions, plain and simple. The addition of an impartial arbitrator at any step along this process could’ve helped so much.

I used to believe that. But I saw very close how an IT union was taken over by old school, corrupt fat union guys. And they just pander to the lowest common denominator. They go against meritocracy. I'd rather pay attention and vote with my feet.

agreed, unions have had issues akin to this across the board in the last decade or so, and it's extremely sad (to say the least). active worker participation and leadership of the union is the antidote to that.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#76

Post by napo »

mothsonasloth wrote: post #52

I used to think big tech companies like Amazon and Google would be different, however now I see they are just becoming like any older traditional corporation with a HR department functioning like the stasi and the ability to oppress through mass policies and hiring contracts. We are lucky as developers to have a fairly easy way of life but I still follow my Grandpa's advice from years working in the shipyards of Glas…

"* When things are good, think about leaving" => Wait what? So what do you do when things are bad?

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#77

Post by gpm »

gpm wrote: post #42
ameister14 wrote: post #11

Just wanted to point out that he's currently suing all of these people and the company for discrimination.

Do you have a link to the suit? The thing that hurts this post the most is the writing, a brief filed by a lawyer would likely make the case much better.

Answering my own question, here is the docket: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/14528071/churyumov-v-am...

Here is the complaint: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.269265...

Note that this is filed "pro se" (he is acting as his own lawyer), which is universally a bad idea.

Having read that complaint, I think he is extremely likely to have a case (though I am not a lawyer). I think he's extremely unlikely to manage to get results through the court unless he gets a lawyer.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#78

Post by ardit33 »

Former Amazon employee here (worked at Lab126, on the original Kindle devices).

While I didn't have a bad manager there (my managers were actually nice people), it is Amazon's corporate culture that turns the place into a 'dog eat dog', arse-hole driven, development. Managers have to run around and cover their arse, as in the first or second misstep, they are out. This pressure filters down to employees who are often thrown against very tight deadlines without much corporate support (ie. basic training on new tech, or even clear coding review standards, and more). Code reviews usually turned into: "Who screams the loudest wins".

Amazon tends to be notoriously 'cheap/frugal', to the point of lacking basic things that most work places take for granted. (I am not talking about cheap coffee and lack of perks, but not even throwing a Christmas party, even though the Kindle was a huge success and sold more than then even the more optimistic prediction). The company will not show/give a basic token of appreciation, even though the team is performing well. Hence, employee morale was not high, but people saw it just as a job. If you are 'young' and still learning and want to grow as a person, you will hate an environment like that.

But the worst abuse was done to H-1B folks like me.

1. Amazon abuses on people that are on H-1B and need their greencard application going to stay in the country. They delay your application at every step, to the point that you realize that something that should take 1 year, it will take 3-4 years at the given pace, or maybe not even done ever. They dragged their feet, and played with your life as a simple leverage tool. (even after talking to the VP of HR, and while getting: 'Yes, it will be done', nothing got done, and things got dragged out anyway).

2. Amazon abuses on people that need some flexibility (due to family reasons). I remember really as at some point I had to pick up the project of co-worker as she had a mental break-down at work. (crying and all). Reason? She needed some time off due to children/family reason and she couldn't get it as 'we were on a tight deadline'.

My first week at work there, there was a 'goodbye' party at my team, where one of the managers/lead engineers was leaving. The reason: Burnout. (I learned that part later).

3. Their back dated options, (i.e. you get most of your stock compensation only on your 4th year), are done in purpose, as they know you probably will not put up with it until then, and leave the money on the table by leaving. Most people stay 1-2 years and move on.

So, yeah, I think Amazon is a bad actor/employee to even software engineers (who tend to have options). I can't imagine their warehouse and lower level employees.

When the NYTimes article came out, I thought it pictured a very accurate portrait of the company. Perhaps things have changed, perhaps they are still the same, but I usually do not recommend friends to work there. They fully deserve their bad rap, and I am glad NYC didn't subsidize their abuse.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-...

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#79

Post by baumy »

In case people don't realize, the linked site has one blog post per day going back the past ~2 weeks all about this protest. Some choice excerpts:

> I am sure in the future Mr Bezos will be placed in one line with Adolf Hitler as an example of genocide.

> There are 2 most difficult parts in the rally:

> - to get courage to start

> - to make a banner

> Courage is easier. Few YouTube videos about Martin Luther King, AC/DC song "Thunderstruck" and I am ready to fight.

> To be honest, in the morning fear of public shame almost caused symptoms of bed wetting.

> But Deadpool told me how to manage this fear. [embedded youtube video from the deadpool movie here]

> They can argue citing last words: Once a decision is determined, they commit wholly. Why didn't I commit? I ask: decision taken by whom? If my manager and his managers all the way till Bezos support oppression, should I respect their opinion?

> Then the only authority here is God. I say: Once a decision is determined BY GOD, I commit wholly. But God didn't ask me to stop protesting yet.

> Thus, most of NYT Amazon examples are really cruel and inhuman. Employees are punished because their parents are dying, their children are disabled etc. I hear shaking Hitler in his coffin. These are not single examples of "bad" managers. This is a company culture. Official company policies support the CULTURE worse than genocide. During the genocide, Jews were not treated in that way.

> If I don't find printer today, tomorrow nobody will know about horrors of Mr Bezos.

> How can I do leafleting without printer?

> Where are all these librarians?!!!!!!

> Btw - got to library. The one near of UW was open even during the "storm"... How can you call this nice Christmas snow a "storm"? I thought the storm is when Dorothy flies in her house through the sky... In Russia we have such storm 9 months a year with a temperature of -22 F.

> Anyway I printed almost 300 sheets of dirt about Amazon. Tomorrow 300 Amazonians will know the True. Jeff, I am coming.

> I was thinking I am afraid of people. But then I realized: in fact people are afraid of me. Now I feel I am more powerful and more free than anybody else. Amazon employees are restricted in their freedoms: they are forced to spend most time of their lives to do the work they hate. They are restricted to speak.

> I am free to speak and Jeff Bezos with all his billions can't close my mouth and can't prevent me from walking on the street with my banner.

> I like that. Like a student who lost virginity. I mean, well, you know.

> But today it will be incredible day. I am going to Whole foods store at Denny way. If Spheres s a heart of Amazon, Whole foods is its stomach. This store is always full of people and engineers. God bless me.

Before the outrage machine gets going, probably worth reading that and asking how reliable of a narrator this is.

Re: Public protest against Amazon

#80

Post by nkassis »

dpcan wrote: post #68

This may seem mean, and feel free to argue with me and prove my statement below wrong. Well, which was it? Was he taking his daughter to therapy or working from home? If his daughter requires additional care, he needs to care for his daughter, but that can't interfere with work. If your kids are not disabled, they may not be interfering with your work, and therefore, when you are working from home - you are, in fact,…

Or it could be about reducing the impact of taking his child to therapy on work time. If it saves him an hour or more of travel during the day then it makes sense to let him WFH.
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