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Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

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Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#51

Post by ijpoijpoihpiuoh »

ForHackernews wrote: post #20
Consultant32452 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a 2nd tier city. My friends who are home owners have very middle class blue collar jobs. Examples include auto mechanic, security system installer, and local delivery truck driver. None of them got "help."

How old are they? I know plenty of people who bought a house 30 or 40 years ago on blue collar salaries. I don't know any <30 year olds who bought property without parental help.

Where do the people you know live? That might inform the probability of being able to buy a home with or without parental help.

I just picked a metro: Baton Rouge. Median home price there is around $160k, although naturally there is plenty of inventory available for less than $100k. Some of it's in pretty dismal shape, but, looking at Zillow, there are non-zero houses in this category that look livable. The median HHI in Baton Rouge is $45k. So it would take about four years for the median family to save up enough to buy something that's at least livable, assuming they can save ten percent of their income.

I couldn't say whether blue collar people make at, above, or below the median, but it strikes me as likely that at least some of them will be able to purchase a home in this type of metro.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#52

Post by donaldknuth123 »

darawk wrote: post #26

This is such nonsense. First of all, there are absolutely people who come from dirt poverty and become wildly successful. Second of all, plenty of people receive lots of help from their parents and amount to precisely nothing. IMO it's fair to refer to your success as "self made" if you exceed the median success level of your class peer group by a substantial margin. If you immigrate from Africa with nothing, and you…

Of course there are people that are actually self made but they are outliers. That's the point of the article. At least in the US the vast majority of people in the highest income brackets were born to families already in those brackets.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#54

Post by dev_dull »

It's really quite amazing to see the attacks lately against successful people. I can't help but feel we're being prepped to accept a new tax structure (or possibly new economical model), and the first step is to whip up everyone against the future fodder (wealthy individuals).

The poor spendthrift vagabond says to a rich man:

"I have discovered there is enough money in the world for all of us, if it was equally divided; this must be done, and we shall all be happy together."

"But," was the response, "if everybody was like you, it would be spent in two months, and what would you do then?"

"Oh! divide again; keep dividing, of course!"

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#55

Post by _range_life »

blueboo wrote: post #25
latencyloser wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of when I was working at Microsoft and a colleague said to me: "I don't know how anyone raises a family off less than $130k/year." I laughed and asked him if he'd ever been anywhere in the US outside of Seattle before. Turns out, he hadn't and assumed the insane cost of living we're subject to in this area also exists in the rest of the country. My point of reference is my family's house in a rural ar…

And so the legend goeth: A friend exclaimed, "how do you afford to buy a house in San Francisco?" I, too, laughed! For lo': huts in the wilderness were mere pennies. He hadn't ever been to the bush, and had assumed the insane cost of living in this area exists in other places with high-paying tech jobs.

The article wasn't specifically about tech jobs, or huts in the bush you retard. It made a blanket statement, and that's what this guy is responding to.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#57

Post by ben509 »

Isamu wrote: post #2

>She told me, “I was curious, but I don't know how a single person in America who doesn't have family money could buy anything, I really don’t, if they're not working in finance or they're not a doctor. ” Easy, there are vast areas of America where housing is more affordable. I certainly got zero cash from family when I bought a home. My family put money into giving me food and shelter growing up though. This is kind…

Responding to your quote: Working in finance, I can report that we do not have magic money machines.

You could narrow "finance" to mean professional traders who do extensive market research and take large risks, sure, they make a lot of money, but they also get wiped out periodically.

They're not very different from other entrepreneurs who make a big investment into their area of expertise and takes big risks, often failing many times along the way.

That is pretty much the "self-made" story, and one thing I do see working in finance is that most people are way too risk averse for it. That's not a bad thing in aggregate, the conservative majority's instinct for stability is an important buffer against all the breakage the risk takers cause.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#58

Post by ralusek »

ForHackernews wrote: post #20
Consultant32452 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a 2nd tier city. My friends who are home owners have very middle class blue collar jobs. Examples include auto mechanic, security system installer, and local delivery truck driver. None of them got "help."

How old are they? I know plenty of people who bought a house 30 or 40 years ago on blue collar salaries. I don't know any <30 year olds who bought property without parental help.

Blue collar jobs tend to pay well.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#59

Post by nkingsy »

Just adding my data point.

My grandfather gave me a college fund and I went to public college, leaving me with the difference between that and private college. The little nest egg that remained in that account was a weight around my neck. I had many enjoyable experiences in my 20's (eg traveling the world earning a living playing online poker for 3 years), but I felt no urgency to pursue a career.

In my late 20's I spent most of the money attempting to write a novel (living expenses) and gave the rest away. Within months of approaching zero in my bank account, I rediscovered programming, found a career I love and was able to afford children.

My recollections may be colored by history, and I may have just been someone that took a long time to mature, but that's how I feel about it today.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#60

Post by ls612 »

smallgovt wrote: post #47
ls612 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We care because if a lot of people don’t believe they can succeed they will generate substantial social unrest, which has often ended poorly throughout history.

But this article is working in the opposite direction -- attempting to take people's ego down a notch and convince them success is not a result of their agency. I get the feeling that the article is steeped in a value system based around the ego. But, if we take it for granted that the ego is important, shouldn't we be happy when people have elated egos? Why try to bring them down? And, if we don't agree that the ego…

Sorry, I wrote that poorly. The well-off people who defend the ideal of the self made person do so because of their desire to not be on the wrong end of pitchforks (metaphorical or otherwise). Not necessarily to massage their egos.
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