Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth • Hacker News Board

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#41

Post by malvosenior » Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #38

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are pretty common. Kansas City. St. Louis. Des Moines. Dayton. And that's just the Midwest. You don't need a great job market; you just need the one job. Works for some people.

In Europe house prices seem fairly tied to employment opportunities. Certainly if you are working in It.

Is that true? I know real estate is incredibly expensive in places like London/Paris and most people cannot afford to own homes there based on their working salary (which is usually much lower than the US equivalent).

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#42

Post by koolba » Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

darawk wrote: post #26

This is such nonsense. First of all, there are absolutely people who come from dirt poverty and become wildly successful. Second of all, plenty of people receive lots of help from their parents and amount to precisely nothing. IMO it's fair to refer to your success as "self made" if you exceed the median success level of your class peer group by a substantial margin. If you immigrate from Africa with nothing, and you…

> But if you say, start Microsoft and become a billionaire i'd say that it's fair to call that self-made success.

Bill Gate’s family clearly contributed to his and Microsoft’s success. His mother in particular had direct contact with the chairman of IBM which lead to a scrappy software company landing a life changing contract.

I’m not saying that to discount the rest of his achievements or effort either. The greatest among us not only have the drive, the intuition, and put in the work, but they also seize upon opportunities when they come knocking.

If it were not his mother and instead a friend’s mother or father that had similar contacts, I have no doubt that Bill Gates would have been just as successful. He would have found that nut and cracked it one way or another.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Maxwell_Gates

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#43

Post by Opportunity007 » Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #10

I think I found the problem: "Take a look around you at the lives you envy, the ones that make you boil with resentment, or fill you with insecurity about your own subpar existence: That adorable Brooklyn brownstone or chic-but-rustic upstate home; the career that YOU want (and you should have, what are you doing wrong?); the impeccable wardrobe; the mid-century modern furniture; the international vacations; the time…

Do people really envy others like this and make themselves miserable over it? Yes, it’s fairly evident by what’s popular: Instagram,Facebook,Snapchat etc... These are platforms meant to “connect” people but more often than not it’s just a method for “keeping up with the Joneses”

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#44

Post by DigiMortal » Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #32

> A recent study from Merrill Lynch and Age Wave reported that 79 percent of the parents surveyed are providing financial support to their adult children, at an average $7,000 a year Wow, this can’t be right. I mean I’ve had friends whose parents paid for their university and stuff like that, and mine helped me a little bit with tuition at a cheap state school, too, for which I’m grateful. But ongoing financial suppo…

Yeah I am a bit surprised, though I do see many of these examples around me. I have several peers into their late 20's receiving support, many in the NYC area as well.

My parents put a roof over my head, valued education, helped with most all of my tuition for undergrad (over 100k), I have 7k of student loan debt left to pay off and I am 26. Right now, I am only left on their phone plan, which I just venmo my dad monthly for, 50 bucks for unlimited on Verizon and I bought my phone off of Swappa for 200 bucks (I recommend Swappa as well, save your money)

I've also seen parents feed junkies, so there's that. I don't understand the ones not working, yet going out all the time, no money management, doing drugs....parents sending money... WHY?!?!

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#45

Post by jonbarker » Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

So the author's parents encouraged leverage by subsidizing a down payment on real estate, an asset class which underperforms index funds. The story doesn't seem to end well; it is probably self correcting in the long run.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#46

Post by anthony_romeo » Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #24

> So why do millennials act like [financial help from parents] doesn't exist? I would argue the exact opposite. I would argue that with the rise of socialist tendencies among millennials, and the hyper fixation on gender, racial, and economic privilege, there is almost an outright rejection of the existence of merit at all. I think that the position is so extreme, that many millennials believe the output of an indivi…

For someone who claims Millenials' opinions are extreme, you are using some rather charged language and making some very broad generalizations of questionable accuracy.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#47

Post by smallgovt » Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

ls612 wrote: post #40

smallgovt wrote: post #28

I think a more interesting question to ask is: Why do we care who is responsible for our success? Is it so that we know how to engineer more success? Or, is it to validate our egos? And, if the latter, aren't we asking the wrong question?

We care because if a lot of people don’t believe they can succeed they will generate substantial social unrest, which has often ended poorly throughout history.

But this article is working in the opposite direction -- attempting to take people's ego down a notch and convince them success is not a result of their agency.

I get the feeling that the article is steeped in a value system based around the ego. But, if we take it for granted that the ego is important, shouldn't we be happy when people have elated egos? Why try to bring them down?

And, if we don't agree that the ego is important, why even ask these questions to begin with?

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#48

Post by Kiro » Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

This is objectively false. I know a lot of successful people who haven't had any help whatsoever, starting with $0 and building their later successful business on the side while working full-time. In fact, I barely know anyone who had their rent paid by their parents at all (since that seems to be the argument here).

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#49

Post by ralusek » Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

sarchertech wrote: post #35

ralusek wrote: post #24

> So why do millennials act like [financial help from parents] doesn't exist? I would argue the exact opposite. I would argue that with the rise of socialist tendencies among millennials, and the hyper fixation on gender, racial, and economic privilege, there is almost an outright rejection of the existence of merit at all. I think that the position is so extreme, that many millennials believe the output of an indivi…

>Where you start matters, but so do the choices you make. Of course it does...but the single largest predictor of future income is parental income. >I would argue the exact opposite. I would argue that with the rise of socialist tendencies among millennials, and the hyper fixation on gender, racial, and economic privilege, there is almost an outright rejection of the existence of merit at all. I think that the positi…

Most people don't have a problem acknowledging individual privileges they have been afforded. People object to broad assumptions made on their behalf by using their race or gender as a proxy.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#50

Post by mountainofdeath » Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

darawk wrote: post #26

This is such nonsense. First of all, there are absolutely people who come from dirt poverty and become wildly successful. Second of all, plenty of people receive lots of help from their parents and amount to precisely nothing. IMO it's fair to refer to your success as "self made" if you exceed the median success level of your class peer group by a substantial margin. If you immigrate from Africa with nothing, and you…

I mean, nobody is saying that it doesn't exist. What people are saying is that the majority of it is an illusion. It's easy to take risks when you have multiple levels to fallback to. I've worked with both backgrounds of people in the same group and there couldn't be a starker difference in attitudes.