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Amazon Caught Selling Counterfeits of Publisher’s Computer Books–Again

arstechnica.com

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Re: Amazon Caught Selling Counterfeits of Publisher’s Computer Books–Again

#61

Post by numbsafari »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #25
lftl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Section 230 apply at all when we're talking about a physically distributed product like this? I get that, even if it doesn't apply, Amazon's defense is probably that they're an intermediary and not the seller, but I thought the DMCA applied pretty strictly to digital copyright violations, and that any lawsuit in this instance would hinge on older laws for physical-good copyright violations.

Well, for one, there is some exception to Section 230 in the realm of intellectual property, which is an angle that could be pursued, but there's been some "conflicting rulings" on it. But I think Amazon would argue that their publishing service is an interactive computer service, and that they are not the providers of the infringing information. Which is to say, it's possible Section 230 would not apply here, but Am…

But isn’t this case an example of Amazon physically printing and delivering a book? They aren’t just moving bits: they actually printed the book.

Re: Amazon Caught Selling Counterfeits of Publisher’s Computer Books–Again

#63

Post by cascom »

ckastner wrote: post #4

The counterfeit and review manipulation issues have rendered Amazon unpleasant enough for me that buying local is something I've started to enjoy again. I trust the merchant to have performed some kind of vetting for merchandise sold on premise, and the price is often good or (interestingly enough) even better than on Amazon. Often enough local is still more expensive, but it beats browsing Amazon for an hour, siftin…

Agree - except for things that are <~$20 and don’t have a super high confidence of being in stock (random calculator battery or special kitchen utensil etc)

Re: Amazon Caught Selling Counterfeits of Publisher’s Computer Books–Again

#64

Post by otterley »

gist wrote: post #11
cobookman wrote: post #2

How isnt Amazon liable for this / sued? If Walmart did the same there would be various lawsuits

Sued for what damages? They can simply remove the offending titles and carry on. What is the cause of action and harm? "You made the same mistake twice and we lost (how much???) dollars!" [1] Maybe some kind of class action but that requires an attorney spending money to advertise and collect information from the class of people harmed. Then litigate, settle and what money do you get? [2] [1] How much did this partic…

The immediate damage is the unearned income from a lost book sale. But there are statutory damages provided by the Copyright Act that could total $100,000 per infringed work.

Re: Amazon Caught Selling Counterfeits of Publisher’s Computer Books–Again

#65

Post by jbay808 »

petilon wrote: post #45

I ordered a copy of Deep Learning [1] from Amazon last week. On Barnes & Noble [2] the book costs $76.80. On Amazon it is just $28.00. I received the book a couple of days ago. The pages look like it was printed using a low-resolution printer, and the ink color is uneven across pages. I am returning the book. Possible counterfeit, sold by a third party seller. On the other hand this book is also available free online…

I ordered a textbook on control theory from Amazon. It arrived, but the material inside the covers is from a small animal veterinary textbook. Byaa different publisher. I took a closer look at the cover, it was poorly printed and didn't quite fit.

I'm still confused about how the vendor expected to get away with it. Did they just guess that half of people won't bother opening the textbook? And why not fill it with blank pages then?

Re: Amazon Caught Selling Counterfeits of Publisher’s Computer Books–Again

#66

Post by pessimizer »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #59

These aren't counterfeit books. They're unlicensed books. You're getting exactly what you order.

Important distinction that some manufacturers intentionally try to cloud in legislation. Counterfeit drugs, for example, are drugs that do not contain the correct chemicals in the correct proportion. It is not drugs that were sold in violation of a patent, or in a country where they aren't licensed.

Re: Amazon Caught Selling Counterfeits of Publisher’s Computer Books–Again

#67

Post by tzs »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #59

These aren't counterfeit books. They're unlicensed books. You're getting exactly what you order.

They are pretty much the definition of counterfeit. The Oxford dictionary defines counterfeit as "Made in exact imitation of something valuable with the intention to deceive or defraud".

Re: Amazon Caught Selling Counterfeits of Publisher’s Computer Books–Again

#68

Post by jihadjihad »

I first heard about counterfeit goods on Amazon from HN, and at the time thought, "Hm, must be a west-coast thing, hasn't happened to me before." In the last year I've received a handful of very obvious fakes and have (thankfully) been able to return them since the items were "fulfilled by Amazon."

It's not surprising that with the volume of items pushed by Amazon there are going to be some fakes. What is surprising is how merchants fulfilled by Amazon lack any incentive AFAIK to ship real goods. For any major purchase from now on, I'm going to buy local or buy direct from the manufacturer. It's just a waste of time to hope that what you get in the mail is what you ordered in the first place.

Re: Amazon Caught Selling Counterfeits of Publisher’s Computer Books–Again

#69

Post by DannyBee »

numbsafari wrote: post #61
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one, there is some exception to Section 230 in the realm of intellectual property, which is an angle that could be pursued, but there's been some "conflicting rulings" on it. But I think Amazon would argue that their publishing service is an interactive computer service, and that they are not the providers of the infringing information. Which is to say, it's possible Section 230 would not apply here, but Am…

But isn’t this case an example of Amazon physically printing and delivering a book? They aren’t just moving bits: they actually printed the book.

This is correct. 230 liability would not protect this case.

In general, physical publishers are always liable for what they print.

It doesn't matter where it came from.

(at least in this context. Things like libel are more interesting)

Re: Amazon Caught Selling Counterfeits of Publisher’s Computer Books–Again

#70

Post by NicoJuicy »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #8
cobookman wrote: post #2

How isnt Amazon liable for this / sued? If Walmart did the same there would be various lawsuits

More than likely, they can just claim "we're just a platform, someone else uploaded the file". This is the inherent problem with Section 230 immunity for platforms: We've given companies a blank check to be used as part of criminal enterprises, and given them no incentive to police illegal behavior on their networks. In this scenario, Amazon is able to literally produce, sell, and distribute counterfeit material, kee…

They are not just a platform, they also sell on the platform and claim unique advantages.

A platform that will only fix it, if they sell it themselves will likely not fix the general problem.

Even if they could

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