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“Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

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Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#81

Post by lawlessone »

roenxi wrote: post #76
JoeSmithson wrote: post #26

So essentially they asked for anonymised lists of phones (i.e. not even the actual numbers) that had been in the locations where the suspects had been, then cross-referenced these to find potential suspects, presumably finding some phones that exactly matched the reported movements of the suspects which they then made a second application to de-anonymise. Do people honestly think this is disproportionate for investig…

If your goal is to arrest someone for the crime, then this may be the best way; but if you optimise society for catching criminals you aren't optimising for prosperity, comfort or sustainability. The country with the greatest personal liberty, currently probably the US, is consistently a place that people would choose to live if they had a choice. This is a hint that moving away from personal liberty will end up with…

>The country with the greatest personal liberty, currently probably the US

What's their prison population again?

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#82

Post by kfwhp »

coldtea wrote: post #67
renholder wrote: post #52

> He noted that even if it did target the wrong person, "it doesn't mean they're going to get convicted or arrested, it just gives the detective a look at who could be involved." ...because no case has ever been so righteously pursued, with such a vigorous degree of righteous indignation, that an innocent person was ever thrown in prison[0], yeah? This blasé attitude about sweeping-up data of innocent people is preci…

>He noted that even if it did target the wrong person, "it doesn't mean they're going to get convicted or arrested, it just gives the detective a look at who could be involved." "Hmm, this black person was near..."

Take your race baiting and shove it.

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#83

Post by VectorLock »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #38

question: can an appeals judge later throw out the warrant, if the judge applied the law "incorrectly"? This technique makes sense for cops . For a lot of killings there's a lit of potential suspects so this weeds out all but a few.

IANAL but I think the law says "if the judge says its okay, its okay."

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#84

Post by jononor »

jamiethompson wrote: post #62
candiodari wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the criminal justice system a judge is asked, in 15 minutes average per case, to see if there is any reason at all to suspect this person, nothing more. A judge would sign off given just the list of coordinates, and legally, they'd be correct in doing so.

That's the difference though. This isn't a warrant against a person. It's a warrant against "anyone who google recorded as being in an area"

It should be required to identify the size of the area affects. Primarily in the estimated number of people that will be scanned. But also in kilometer radius and duration of time.

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#85

Post by antris »

roenxi wrote: post #76
JoeSmithson wrote: post #26

So essentially they asked for anonymised lists of phones (i.e. not even the actual numbers) that had been in the locations where the suspects had been, then cross-referenced these to find potential suspects, presumably finding some phones that exactly matched the reported movements of the suspects which they then made a second application to de-anonymise. Do people honestly think this is disproportionate for investig…

If your goal is to arrest someone for the crime, then this may be the best way; but if you optimise society for catching criminals you aren't optimising for prosperity, comfort or sustainability. The country with the greatest personal liberty, currently probably the US, is consistently a place that people would choose to live if they had a choice. This is a hint that moving away from personal liberty will end up with…

> The country with the greatest personal liberty, currently probably the US, is consistently a place that people would choose to live if they had a choice

You haven't been around the world very much, have you? I wouldn't say that many people in the Nordic countries, for example, would choose to move to the US. If they do, liberty is certainly not among the reasons why.

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#86

Post by netsharc »

hrdwdmrbl wrote: post #58

In the future I think that the idea that the government doesn't know where everyone is at all times will seem hard to imagine. (This is an IS statement not an OUGHT statement)

Yeah, there's even already tech now to have drones constantly monitor cities: https://gizmodo.com/a-spy-plane-that-surveilled-an-entire-ci...

If you e.g. see a car speed off after a robbery, you'd just need to rewind to see where the car came from and who (or from which houses) it picked up before the robbery. I guess they'd just need to add cameras in underpasses for total surveillance.

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#87

Post by acd »

The interesting point would be if its repeat crime by the same person. Say that the same cell phone has been at several crime scenes during the crime period.

The combined data set/cluster of cell phones present at the time during crime scenes would be interesting for the police.

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#88

Post by astura »

jamiethompson wrote: post #62
candiodari wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the criminal justice system a judge is asked, in 15 minutes average per case, to see if there is any reason at all to suspect this person, nothing more. A judge would sign off given just the list of coordinates, and legally, they'd be correct in doing so.

That's the difference though. This isn't a warrant against a person. It's a warrant against "anyone who google recorded as being in an area"

...so? It would be like if the warrant was for the log book of who checked into a hotel during a certian timeframe.

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#89

Post by PavlovsCat »

lawlessone wrote: post #81
roenxi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your goal is to arrest someone for the crime, then this may be the best way; but if you optimise society for catching criminals you aren't optimising for prosperity, comfort or sustainability. The country with the greatest personal liberty, currently probably the US, is consistently a place that people would choose to live if they had a choice. This is a hint that moving away from personal liberty will end up with…

>The country with the greatest personal liberty, currently probably the US What's their prison population again?

There's countries where the percentage is lower, yet it's basically illegal to criticize the government.

More importantly, what does that change about the argument that arresting criminals is hardly the only thing to consider? Here's the same argument with enhanced contrast: If you threw Earth into the sun, all crimes would stop. If that's all we care about, everything else is just kicking the can down the road. But that would be a "crime" in and of itself, right? IMO the same could be said about mass surveillance, it's stripping humans of their rights to preserve their rights, burning the village to save it.

Generally I can't help but notice that it's really not the size of the crime that seems to matter, but whether it's aligned with centers of power or not. We're aiming at a world where a tyrant can't be assassinated, and the defenseless can be murdered without consequence, with a bit of playing for time and lip service to principles here and there.

> It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.

-- Voltaire

Re: “Reverse location” search warrants identify all cellphones near a crime scene

#90

Post by nagyf »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #68
oh_sigh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because people leave their phone at home all the time, but phones rarely go on trips without the owner.

So, send phone on trip to "prove" I wasn't somewhere else; put it in my kids backpack, fix it under my neighbours car.

So you put it in your kid's backpack and later the police will see that you spent your day in an elementary school. Does not seem like a very good alibi. The same is true for your neighbor, they will see that you spent your day in the parking lot of your neighbor's workplace, pretty suspicious.
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