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A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

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Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#631

Post by foxrob92 »

stale2002 wrote: post #436
ForHackernews wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a subsidy to renewables. Bitcoin miners don't give two shits about whether their energy is green or not. You want to help level out peaks and troughs of electricty production: Improve battery technology, don't just waste the energy generating sha256 over and over.

It is a subsidy, in that this was free energy that renewables were unable to profit from, previously. Before: The energy from a hydro plants gets wasted when it is night time. After: Now they get money. The hydro plant is now making money on something that they were just throwing away, previously, and thus it is a subsidy.

>Before: The energy from a hydro plants gets wasted when it is night time.

Hydro plants can usually turn off relatively quickly. They can be used as pump storage, which is an incredibly efficient way of storing energy - >70% efficiency [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricit...

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#632

Post by foxrob92 »

johnisgood wrote: post #591
good-idea wrote: post #242

I'm shocked and disheartened by how infrequently environmental concerns are brought up when discussing crypto. Proof of Work vs Proof of Stake, security, storage size - these are problems for the network and those that want to see it become a real part of our economy. (I am one of those) But the amount of energy being used to mine bitcoin is a real problem - it's not just a technical challenge (like the problems abov…

> My favorite summary of crypto is something along the lines of: leaving your car running while it solves sudoku puzzles in exchange for drugs. The drugs part isn't as relevant anymore, but the rest is. Seriously? By the way, the negative environmental impacts will be significantly reduced after ITER is ready.

You're saying that we just need to make fusion a reality in order for bitcoin to be environmentally friendly?

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#633

Post by darawk »

keymone wrote: post #479
darawk wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see people say this sometimes, and then provide no real evidence that it is at all true. PoS systems exist now, they don't have political problems to speak of any moreso than PoW coins. I see no reason to think that PoS would induce any sort of great political struggle that PoW wouldn't.

It’s natural way of life. If a system is subject to being controlled by political process, which PoS is unlike PoW, it will eventually be overrun by politicians. Just common sense.

And which political processes exactly is PoS subject to that PoW is not?

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#634

Post by darawk »

woolvalley wrote: post #472
darawk wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see people say this sometimes, and then provide no real evidence that it is at all true. PoS systems exist now, they don't have political problems to speak of any moreso than PoW coins. I see no reason to think that PoS would induce any sort of great political struggle that PoW wouldn't.

A PoS that actually matters will turn into a political game as large stakeholders play negotiation games of where the project goes next. Much like stockholder corporations today.

How is that different from PoW?

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#635

Post by baddox »

orthecreedence wrote: post #598
baddox wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the environmental argument is completely irrelevant if externalities are removed, which they absolutely should be. It doesn’t make sense to make the environmental argument for things that you consider wasteful, but not for other things that other people may consider wasteful.

> The point is that the environmental argument is completely irrelevant if externalities are removed, which they absolutely should be. Yes, I agree that my argument would be completely irrelevant if only something that will never happen happens. Until then, I'd rather see some form of distributed currency that doesn't rely on pissing finite resources away to function. I get where you're coming from, but our planet is…

I don’t think anyone disagrees that reducing the energy requirements of cryptocurrency without any capability loss would be great. The trouble is when people who don’t like cryptocurrency for other reasons, or just don’t care about it, focus specifically on complaining about its energy usage.

Say you don’t care much about professional sports. Of course you would think that any innovation that reduces the energy requirements of professional would be great (more efficient arena lights, climate control, etc.). But I think it would be inappropriate to single out sports as a waste of energy, because it is only a “waste” because you don’t happen to receive and of the benefits.

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#636

Post by sbenitoj »

_gx90 wrote: post #567
ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A low, but positive, inflation rate is of critical importance. > Any supply of money will do. That is just nonsense. If you have a fixed money supply, given that economic growth is happening, would result in a naturally deflationary currency. That is a terrible place to be for the system as a whole as no one has any incentives to spend or invest in anything as money itself will simply gain value over time just sittin…

>That is a terrible place to be for the system as a whole as no one has any incentives to spend or invest in anything as money itself will simply gain value over time just sitting as cash. Thus, that money isn't being used / circulated. Having a ideal velocity of money has significant multiplier effects and deflationary currencies are fundamentally flawed. In what world is this true? Time preference is a real thing,…

Nice to see a handful of people have seen through the Keynesian idiocy they inculcate everyone with in public education!

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#637

Post by Mengkudulangsat »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #316
good-idea wrote: post #242

I'm shocked and disheartened by how infrequently environmental concerns are brought up when discussing crypto. Proof of Work vs Proof of Stake, security, storage size - these are problems for the network and those that want to see it become a real part of our economy. (I am one of those) But the amount of energy being used to mine bitcoin is a real problem - it's not just a technical challenge (like the problems abov…

> In that sense, the coin would create an economic incentive to pollute (there are plenty of these already), and there's no way to regulate that kind of decentralized network. (That's the whole point) And that's also the solution. The reason people are interested in decentralized trust is that the existing system of centralized trust is a dumpster fire. Politicians want to use the banking system to attack their enemi…

This is my primary motivator for supporting Bitcoin. No one supports criminal activities, but we underestimate how much AML/KYC laws have produced a chilling effect on an open society.

The relative ease with which your assets can be frozen, compared with how difficult and opaque it is to get them unfrozen; is something I have witnessed many times and I feel is absolutely unfair. This leads to self-censorship and dissuades the public free exchange of ideas.

If Bitcoin can eventually fund for example; a pro-democracy movement in China or a pro-secular movement in the Middle-East, then it is definitely worth all its flaws.

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#638

Post by scarejunba »

good-idea wrote: post #242

I'm shocked and disheartened by how infrequently environmental concerns are brought up when discussing crypto. Proof of Work vs Proof of Stake, security, storage size - these are problems for the network and those that want to see it become a real part of our economy. (I am one of those) But the amount of energy being used to mine bitcoin is a real problem - it's not just a technical challenge (like the problems abov…

All we have to do is price externalities into power generation and we’ll be fine.

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#639

Post by int_19h »

creato wrote: post #599
DINKDINK wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even if you could somehow do this...That simply will never be possible You already can: bitcoin. >I doubt you would actually really want to do this even if you had the capability If I'm a Jew in 1930s Germany or a grocery store owner in Venezuela and I see the writing on the wall that my government is constantly deriding me, saying I'm the scourge of and leach on society, I'm going to immigrate out of the country. T…

> If I'm a Jew in 1930s Germany or a grocery store owner in Venezuela and I see the writing on the wall that my government is constantly deriding me, saying I'm the scourge of and leach on society, I'm going to immigrate out of the country. They've banned all institutions from services me, I benefit from having access to a means to store wealth that's independent from a government. To disagree is to be excessively my…

I don't think you're going to find any specific examples, because nobody is going to boast of moving a lot of money under the radar.

But judging by the trade volume in Venezuela, they're clearly using it for something.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/14/venezuela-crisis-bitcoin-tra...

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#640

Post by sbenitoj »

zjaffee wrote: post #404
sbenitoj wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“You need inflation for proper incentives. It's like a tax on the entire network to keep it supported. Without proper incentives, the game theory collapses.” What, specifically, do you think the consequences of a stable money supply are?

Deflation, which given a growing population would always be a given. In turn deflation makes the entire debt system collapse , which is the backbone of economic growth especially in the developed world.

Why should debt support an economy? Without such massive inflation people wouldn’t need to take on much debt to make large purchases such as cars/houses because the prices of cars/houses would be much, much lower.

It only makes sense to take on debt if you have a productive way to put that money to use (Eg a business) that has a higher rate of return than the interest rate.

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