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I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

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Re: I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

#121

Post by Buldak »

fredsted wrote: post #10

I've seen a few cases where otherwise talented developers would kind of miss the point of code reviews and focus on code style much more than the code itself, nitpicky stuff like sorting of imports, etc., leaving hundreds of comments while at the same time overlooking quite serious bugs. Presumably, codestyle comes easy for them due to their neurotype, but they have a hard time reining themselves in and just end up w…

When I was a student I had this same experience peer-editing prose. In reading a classmate's paper, I found endless nits to pick about syntax and minute points of diction or style, but much less to say about the actual argument. The main reason for this is just that it was easier. It doesn't take much effort to call out bits that strike one as unaesthetic, but evaluating the substance of a paper requires that I really think about what it's saying.

Re: I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

#122

Post by zestyping »

iheartpotatoes wrote: post #72
Fellshard wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think diversity of skin color and gender will solve this problem in its entirety too. People of every race and every gender have the capacity to be this kind of self-centered egotist. People of every race and every gender have the capacity to be excellent developers who are focused outwards, on developing their teammates and building things well. Diversity is part of the picture, yes, but it's no instant win,…

Why did you feel the need to state the obvious? This is the kind of toxic nonsense that comes up every time someone mentions diversity. Its the status-quo "notallmen" argument again and again and again. Please, assume just for a minute that we aren't all idiots. Of -course- everyone has the capacity to be an idiot, but your unnecessary and highly defensive response is very telling.

> your unnecessary and highly defensive response is very telling.

You just crossed the line from making this about the issue to making it personal. That's not okay.

Re: I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

#123

Post by jacques_chester »

btilly wrote: post #98
matfil wrote: post #39

When did code reviews become so ubiquitous? Articles complaining about the reality of code reviews seem to be commonplace. But if they're not working out, why not just abandon them, maybe try something different?

The issue is that code reviews are hard on people and good on code bases. Dollar for dollar, code reviews are more effective at finding and fixing bugs than any other activity we can do, including QA tests. However code reviews are very hard on people, and can easily create conflict. Which one matters more, and how careful people are, varies widely by organization.

My recollection is that the studies showing that code reviews have high defect yield are for extremely strict methods. Everyone in a room, prescribed roles for each person, line by line, checklists, forms, the whole nine yards.

Comments on pull requests are not on the same level and those findings shouldn't be hastily generalised.

Re: I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

#124

Post by zestyping »

miltondts wrote: post #111

As long as the code does what it is supposed to do with acceptable performance then I don't comment and approve the PR. Because unlike people that think there are right ways I know that it's all religious arguments. Last I checked there are 0 credible reproduced scientific studies about what is the correct way to program. Or even a better way. So as far as I'm concerned it is all opinion based and sure I also have my…

In most cases, designing for maintainability and reducing the likelihood of future bugs is more important than maximizing speed.

Or to put it another way, the human costs of maintenance and bugfixing are usually large, and may even be the largest costs on a project.

Re: I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

#125

Post by bobbytherobot »

tokyodude wrote: post #60
aristophenes wrote: post #13

"If a guy brings me his code, and it has mistakes, it brings insane pleasure from how smart I feel ... And if you tell me that you haven’t had this feeling ever, then you’re lying." I can tell you I haven't had this feeling ever, but not for reasons I'm proud of. I hate doing code reviews. I have hated doing every one. I have disliked having to type every comment I have made on a code review. Each time I hope that ev…

I can't say I enjoyed code reviewing but I never felt like I was being mean to my teammates. I was really happy when a teammate found a bug in code review of my code rather than that bug getting checked in. I was also really happy when they shared knowledge and I learned something. Maybe they shared a pattern I was unfamiliar with or maybe they pointed out an existing function I could use I didn't know was in the cod…

I hated code reviews when I first had to do them because it was a toxic place. I hate them less upon focusing on what you describe. I'll add to it that I've taken a more conversational tone. Sometimes I'll just add comments to talk about how this code fits into the whole system and weird legacy stuff that is affecting what they are writing.

Re: I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

#126

Post by btilly »

jacques_chester wrote: post #123
btilly wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that code reviews are hard on people and good on code bases. Dollar for dollar, code reviews are more effective at finding and fixing bugs than any other activity we can do, including QA tests. However code reviews are very hard on people, and can easily create conflict. Which one matters more, and how careful people are, varies widely by organization.

My recollection is that the studies showing that code reviews have high defect yield are for extremely strict methods. Everyone in a room, prescribed roles for each person, line by line, checklists, forms, the whole nine yards. Comments on pull requests are not on the same level and those findings shouldn't be hastily generalised.

My impression is that comments on pull requests do not catch as many defects as formal review, but catch even more per dollar spent.

Re: I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

#127

Post by hinkley »

> An alpha male with a huge stick.

No, you want to believe you're an alpha male. If you have to keep proving it every day it's not true.

You're acting out because you're insecure as hell and you're trying to prove to yourself that you're an "alpha male". A big part of being secure in your own opinions is letting other people be wrong sometimes.

At some point nothing you can say will stop them. Now you have to switch over to contingency plans. If you're absolutely sure it's going to break if they do it that way, then you need something more constructive than 'I told you so'. People trust you when you pull their fat out of the fire multiple times. Not when you dick wave at them.

> and in a way that I contemplated quitting the industry. I was too dumb for all this.

No, you're not too dumb. You're just wound tighter than a kettle drum. What you need, and I'm being sincere here, is a therapist, not another book on code styles.

We all have our histamine reactions to different things. While you're worried about 5 things someone else is worried about 3 others, one of which you never even thought of. I would hate to be on a team where everyone only cared about exactly the things I care about. My priorities help find issues faster but I don't find them all myself. A team of me would be almost as lopsided as the things I push back against. I try to remind myself that when I'm having trouble with feeling like my #1 priority is someone else's #15 or NaN.

Re: I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

#128

Post by Izkata »

redleggedfrog wrote: post #87
finnthehuman wrote: post #28

This guy ties his ego to his code, and assumes everyone does the same. The proposed solution is to not devalue the person by devaluing the code. This seems exactly backwards to me. Disconnecting ego from the work was the first big lesson I had when I started working in software. I hear parallel ideas from friends across industries, in fact an electrical contractor explained to me how he expects it of his apprentices…

I wish I had 100 up votes for this quote: "Disconnecting ego from the work was the first big lesson I had when I started working in software." Until you can do that, you'll always be a lesser software developer. You'll concentrate on maintaining your ego instead of developing the best software for the problem at hand. In a way that's the gist of the article. It's interesting, but at the company I've worked at, where…

> Until you can do that, you'll always be a lesser software developer.

Reminds me of a joke-ish comment I saw on here some time ago: The difference between a junior and senior developer is the willingness to say "that bug was totally my fault".

Re: I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

#129

Post by tomlagier »

Izkata wrote: post #128
redleggedfrog wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I had 100 up votes for this quote: "Disconnecting ego from the work was the first big lesson I had when I started working in software." Until you can do that, you'll always be a lesser software developer. You'll concentrate on maintaining your ego instead of developing the best software for the problem at hand. In a way that's the gist of the article. It's interesting, but at the company I've worked at, where…

> Until you can do that, you'll always be a lesser software developer. Reminds me of a joke-ish comment I saw on here some time ago: The difference between a junior and senior developer is the willingness to say "that bug was totally my fault".

Also, "maybe we shouldn't build that".

Re: I ruin developers’ lives with my code reviews and I'm sorry

#130

Post by metta2uall »

Good on you.

"Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one — himself. Not even a God, an Angel, Mara or Brahma can turn into defeat the victory of a person who is self-subdued and ever restrained in conduct." -- Dhammapada 103-105

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