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What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

nytimes.com

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Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#71

Post by mykowebhn »

When I was in primary school in Canada, I was able to get mostly good grades without really trying. I admit I was a little lazy, and my laziness would result in the occasional bad grade.

What I remember is that I would always be scolded by my teachers for not doing well. A few of my friends, however, who were black would never be scolded for not doing well at school.

The point I'm trying to get across is that racism can be quite subtle and baked into things we don't even realize, like the expectations we have of other people. I'm not sure how well I would've done in life if people implicitly expected me to fail.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#72

Post by mikestew »

paulcole wrote: post #13
willpiers wrote: post #8

I fail to see how either of your anecdotes constitute racism

> Yeah, the road system here was designed by a drunk Indian What does including Indian add here? If the (alleged) drunk was white would the person have said, "drunk white guy"?

The alleged drunk would never be white, that's the point. The punchline will always involve $DEROGATORY_MODIFIER $MINORITY. For instance, "drunk Indian"; if you grew up in IN, you'll tack on "but I repeat myself", because that's what passes for clever in IN. (I grew up there, I get to make fun.)

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#74

Post by eruci »

tptacek wrote: post #50
eruci wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a rather simplistic political view. Divide all professional achievement equally among races, although individual scientific recognitions (as in this case) are not up to the state to divvy up, but, up to the individual person to earn via hard work and innate talent. Even in the case mentioned in the article, it seems like a doctorate was awarded mostly on political grounds and not so much on the quality of rese…

The guidelines ask you to write more carefully as topics get divisive, but you're doing the opposite: talking about the "madness" of affirmative action is emotional language that does nothing but polarize the thread. Plenty of HN people respectfully and carefully disagree with affirmative action; if you can't be one of them, step aside and let them do it instead.

Agreed! Should have used the word "irrational" instead.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#75

Post by zdragnar »

paulcole wrote: post #13
willpiers wrote: post #8

I fail to see how either of your anecdotes constitute racism

> Yeah, the road system here was designed by a drunk Indian What does including Indian add here? If the (alleged) drunk was white would the person have said, "drunk white guy"?

A former governor of MN once claimed that its capital city streets were designed by drunken Irishmen. He immediately realized that was a Bad Thing to say, but it was certainly an afterthought to his statement.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#76

Post by afiori »

iguy wrote: post #62
kauffj wrote: post #34

> For the record, here is a small sample of other communities where black people are strongly underrepresented: > Runners (3%). Bikers (6%). Furries (2%). Wall Street senior management (2%). Occupy Wall Street protesters (unknown but low, one source says 1.6% but likely an underestimate). BDSM (unknown but low) Tea Party members (1%). American Buddhists (~2%). Bird watchers (4%). Environmentalists (various but univer…

I would bet that in almost every one of those categories, Americans of New England descent are over-represented compared to people of Christian Italian/German/Polish descent. (With the least money on the sporting ones.)

Furries (2%).Occupy Wall Street protesters (unknown but low, one source says 1.6% but likely an underestimate). BDSM (unknown but low). Environmentalists (various but universally low). Wikipedia contributors (unknown but low). Atheists (2%). Fanfiction readers (2%).

there are quite a few that don't really match...

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#77

Post by lokidokiro »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #3

As an Asian in math I suffer from racism as well.

In the US, it's socially acceptable to discriminate against white and Asian people. As a result, whites and Asians are victimized by racism on a far greater scale than any other racial group. The perpetrators of such racism justify their actions by saying your ancestors were well off so it's fine to mistreat you.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#78

Post by whyisthewhat »

ericdykstra wrote: post #67
tptacek wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's true. They just suggest it.

No, again, this is blank-slateism. People are born with genetic predispositions that influence things such as height, eye color, mathematical ability, and career preference. You would only expect population-proportionate outcomes if genetics played no role. Even if they only play a 10% role, you get vastly different outcomes.

So your belief is that black people as a group have inherently less mathematical ability than whites people? Am I misinterpreting you?

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#79

Post by locopati »

iguy wrote: post #43
_bxg1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something to be said for representation. If you're a bright high-schooler with some interest in mathematics, but don't have a single mathematician to point to who shares your cultural background, it's much harder to visualize and manifest your goal. There's at least a partial self-sustaining mechanism to this sort of thing, which I think is the best argument for affirmative action.

But "shares your cultural background" is in large measure something we choose. Not necessarily as individuals, but as a society, in what we emphasise. Why can't "American" be the right cultural background, or better yet for math nerd kids, "mathematicians who are also musicians" (common), or "mathematicians who like drawing pictures" / "hate drawing pictures" (most depts have both)? Instead we choose always to emphas…

Because pervasive racism in the US means that people still don't see native-born Latinxs or Blacks or Asians as Americans, due the same benefits (and benefits of doubt) that white people receive all the time.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#80

Post by ericdykstra »

whyisthewhat wrote: post #60
ericdykstra wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is baseless, unscientific blank-slateism, and isn't true anywhere in the world among any demographic segment in any measure. If 10% of Singaporean men are gay would you expect 10% of male plumbers in Singapore to be gay? If women are 30% of the workforce in Canada, would you expect Canadian dental assistants to be 70% male? Disparate outcomes doesn't imply unfair treatment.

What specifically do you think is the reason black people should not be expected to achieve demographic parity in academic math? And how does that relate to “blank slate-ism”? You seem to be implying that there is some inherent characteristic of black people that prevents them from attaining equal representation in math academia. Is this what you intended to convey? Please be explicit.

> What specifically do you think is the reason black people should not be expected to achieve demographic parity in academic math?

I don't expect demographic parity in anything.

> And how does that relate to “blank slate-ism”?

You only expect demographic parity in everything if you think genetics doesn't play a role in what type of careers people choose.

> You seem to be implying that there is some inherent characteristic of black people that prevents them from attaining equal representation in math academia.

Well, for one, it looks like Black students choose Math as a major significantly less often than Asian students do. Blacks having some genetic predisposition to prefer other subjects seems like a pretty decent hypothesis.

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